I've been posting a lot lately, but this was just something I'm curious about:
Going 500 a pop now for a 5x3 labelled on the bay.
Arks made a comeback, Jnats have stolen the obsession of many, naniwa 12ks, coticules, even other thuringians.
Is the Escher still worth it in 2016? What can a thuringian do to a maxed out coti? Is any thuringian any different?
Yes, each was worth what I paid, but I never paid near $500. In general, I feel that most thuringians will improve most coticules, but they both can make great edges.
:hmmm:
Then again, part of that belief may be because I paid more, on average, for the thuringians!
I have a few naturals in my box of hones. The biggest thing that seems to change for me is the feel of the edge for lack of better words. They all shave similar when well finished, as in they cut whiskers effectively and efficiently, but do not all feel the same on my face. I have only two Eschers and they are pretty much the same. I have three Coticules and they are all different. The others I have are all one ofs so I cannot compare from one edge to another of the same type. They can all get pricey from time to time.
I had a labeled escher. Loved it, but it was a 6x1.5 iirc. I ended up selling it to get another jnat. Then I bought a 9x2 thuringian. Love that one too, but I find myself going to jnats 100% of the time in the last year. The price tag for a large, labeled escher is not worth it my eyes. You could get a sweet jnat for that kind of money, and be much happier. All my opinion of course, others will likely disagree.
With the exception of one NOS Escher, still in original wooden box, labels and ink stamp on the stone intact, which I paid slightly more than $500.00 for, my other 3 stones were half that price, and IMO, have never failed to put the nicest, softest shaving edge on all of my razors, especially using them to refresh a razor.
I'm a firm believer as echoed in another post by JimmyHAD, that a finish on a natural, followed by thorough stropping on linen, felt, and leather, produces the nicest edge for me personally, never followed by CROX.
Personally, I never use my old crox pasted strop, unless I'm lazy, just to easy and the results are so superior to do a touch up on an Escher.
YMMV.
An Escher, Thuringen, has many different colors and grades. They can be learned fairly quickly. The hard work should have been done on the lower grit hones. I am happy to have my Thuringen.Quote:
Originally Posted by J743
I bought and found many hones. I am happy I have mine. JMO.
~Richard
Simply, No. I paid too much for one a few years ago but was fortunate that the market was such that I sold it for a small profit. Honestly, it did not add anything to my CH12K 100 lap finish.
I'm guessing that if you sold it for a profit then you paid slightly under market value. In any event, we all find our preferred edge. If you really want to know what this hone or that hone can do, have someone with skills and the hone you are looking at to put an edge on a razor for you. If you fall in love then buy one and learn how to use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
Im not a fan of paste either. I just like my coti too much!Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank
Do eschers pop up in antique stores ever? Might have to check that out. Much better than eBay hunting. Easier to find but I feel like the price is just too outrageous.
That was several years ago. Thankfully, the market moved up during the time that I owned it. Had I held it until today, I could have doubled!Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Plenty of hones (over 20). Multiple strops. Plenty of experience/skill (over 35 yrs). I get fantastic edges from many different combinations and enjoy experimenting with different progressions. Nothing wrong with the Escher edges. They were great. I have just been able to duplicate or better them with hones that were much less expensive.
Maybe I'm getting to be more of a minimalist in my old age. I traded in my twin turbo V8 BMW 550i in on a new 3.5L Nissan Altima SL and have no regrets. OK, maybe a little regret :)
Twin Turbo V8 BMW 550i...Lord Thunderin' Jesus I'd die in that car....I almost traded in my 325i for the turbo 335i (the poor man's M3) and changed my mind because I figured I'd just get busted for speeding and pay a lot for gas to go slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
I can't imagine the torque and horsepower on that 550i....wow...what a machine...I can just imagine what an experience to drive that would have been.
:bow
Lol, now he's having a little more regret! I miss my old M3. We have a 335i now... It's OK. :rofl2:
And yeah, I would totally get my Escher stones again, got really good deals on a couple of mine by buying unidentified stones on eBay then finding the Escher labels after getting them out of the box they were stuck in. Got a really cherry one from a local flea market seller for next to nothing too.
This is all personal preference. There are different eschers color/hardness. Price wise I would say no for those prices. You can get a unlabeled or boxed labeled thuri that works just the same without the name if you know what to look for at a 5th of the price or less. Now if you are a collector, or don't know what to look for maybe.
Yes, indeed. Scary fast and mucho torque. I had a lot of fun in it in the 4yrs and 52K miles that I owned it. My wife and the Nissan dealer asked WTF?? Warranty runs out next January and things like $900 headlights and twin turbos scare me worse LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank
Yes, if I had my time over I'd buy lots of Eschers. Lots and lots. They never cease to amaze me, you can buy one in the green box, the blue box, the red box... Some have two barbers on them, others 4... Fantastic.
And on top of all this they leave a nice edge on the razor!
The only problem is I think they're all a bit too consistent. Where's the fun in that? With a coti it's like playing the lottery/Russian roulette. You never know what's gonna happen. And the worse the result, the more honing you can do! lol. With an Escher, a bit of slurry, a few strokes and you've got a very precise and clinical edge.
Knowing what I know now I would buy one or two, but not six or eight, as I did years ago. The up side is, of those I sold, I either got my money out of them, or practically doubled it. The down side is that I sold a couple of stones that I would have kept knowing what I know now.
I ended up with a gelb-grun (yellow green) and a blau-grun (blue-green) and those are keepers. IME finishing on an Escher leaves a characteristic edge. IOW the feel on the face is an 'Escher feel', the way a good coticule has its own feel. Dollar for dollar I probably would have been as well off sticking with the Norton 4/8 combo I started with instead of ending up with a ton of various stones (most gone to good homes). But it was a lot of fun, and helped make life interesting for awhile. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Thanks guys, you all helped me figure this one out.
I'm going to stick with my coticules just a little bit longer, refining what's allready proven to work for me. Why not?
In the meantime, well, I guess I'll start saving for an escher!
I have an Adoration Deluxe razor arriving soon. I want to hone it up of course, but maybe send it out to see what an escher edge can do to a coti's touch. I'll know then I'm saving for the right stone.
I just bought a 6x1.5 inch labeled Escher for $75 on ebay. So they are out there. Just have to be persistent.
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I had a half thickness 10x2 Y/G. I wouldn't buy it again. It was nothing special compared to any other good finisher (of course it sharpened a razor fine, and of course there is little risk knowing it will do so given that it's a y/g escher). In the end, I found it no more capable (and less so) than several small pieces of japanese rock that I have, a hard ark or 7, etc, and all of those are about $50 - $125 each, the hard arks on the high side of that.
If I was at a yard sale and saw an escher for cheap, of course I'd buy it, but I'd sell it quickly, too.
My particular stone was a pain to unload because it was half thick and had some flaking/cracking beginning to occur after I flattened it. I got back less than half of what I paid for it because of that. If it had done something other stones don't do, I'd still have it.
Attachment 239649
These little boxed thuri water hones are just as good and cheaper if you want to put a thuri edge on your blade. I used one for a while till I got a really good deal on a large Droescher. Which also isn't an escher, but most likely from the same hole in the ground.
If I had to start over again? Well, I would sit down with Bart, let him show me how to use a hone, then buy a hone, and that would be that. And I honestly could not care less which one it was, as long as it was vintage. Call me OCD'ed, but honing a vintage razor with a synthetic hone, or one not from the region (ie Belgium, or Germany) feels wrong.
Oh, and yes, one hone. Not two, or fifteen (that was the most I ever owned). One. It is enough, and it should be enough for anyone who does not hone professionally, in which case consistence, speed, and ease of use play a more important role than nostalgia.
I'd rather save up for a 5 x 3. I really like that size. I might be persuaded by a 6 x 1,5, but a 5 x 3 just hits the spot, for me.
I wonder, if anyone has a black or translucent ark, how the edges compare.
Yes, this is very true. But you're assuming only a pragmatic purpose/shaver's perspective. For me at least, I like hones as much or more than razors. I'd rather have one razor I liked and 20 hones to experiment with. I've got two more coming in the mail right now. lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinK
Your best bet is a 5 x 2.5. That is the size I have and it is really a nice size. I started on the 5 x 1 and it worked great too actually teaches you a good technique since it is small. Did they make a 5 x 3? They are not cheap though. Everyone that has sold lately went for 2 to 5 times what I paid.Quote:
Originally Posted by J743
And that is the beauty of this hobby: something for everyone. I hate honing more than ironing shirts. But if I have to do it, I want to do it in style. And get it over with, as fast as humanly possible. I know people who find honing relaxing, or even a replacement for meditation. And that is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein
Eschers/Thuringians are by far my favorite/go to finisher. Super easy to use and always give an amazing edge. I've owned them in every color. I recently sold my last labeled "Escher" brand thuri this week but still have several others. I have a boxed/labeled Fassbinder & Co in dark Blue/Blue-green range (believe to be blue green but just says Dunkel so could be either), a LG bout I bought from Peter that I love, and now a boxed Genuine that was lucky to find in Yellow-Green (most are Blue with some rare greens mixed in) that I use all the time. Frankly I HATE selling any of my stones but since I just made a huge purchase reasoning dictated that I needed to clear house to say my bank account lol. If I could I would have keep every Thuri i've ever owned. They are great stones. Of course getting a deal on one is always amazing if possible.
I also have a Thuringian bout that equals my Escher in every way. So yes, the Escher is well worth the money performance-wise, but I probably would not bite at today's prices.
Only one regret is getting my light yg transition 7" thuri, he conned me into giving a 1000$(now) razor for a 200$(or less rock). I love the rock but it still hurts to get burned that bad. If he made it right that would be great and no hard feelings.
I own 20 including slurry stones probably, some of my favorites.
Ouch! If it helps any, being duped/separated from your money somehow is part of the process. I'm sure I've spent close to a grand on the silly 'global shipping program' alone. And all I get from that is extended delivery times, and a box that is usually 10 times bigger than whatever is inside it! lol. And then there are the razors that have been beautifully photographed but mediocre at best in the hand, and the vintage hones which have been described as 'finishers/great condition' which in reality were just normal or had a crack or line going through them.Quote:
Originally Posted by DireStraights
But a boxed/labelled Escher is a boxed/labelled Escher. There's nothing to argue about there. And a boxed and labelled 5x2.5 went yesterday on the bay for $270. (I bid $265, lol).
No Eschers. A Boker Barber's Delight.
Absolutely no regrets.The price was right, and the edges just seem to get better and better the more you hone with it.
Cotis and Arks seem to have a steeper learning curve, this just worked straight out of the box.
Thankfully it wasn't immaculate with a label intact, so I actually use it.
Grazor, I've got an Escher Barber's Delight, but never heard of one by Boker. Any chance you could post a pic of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazor
Yes they did. I saw one on ebay recently. It was a small stone. I didn't see anything on the label that indicated it was made by Escher.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
If I had to do it all again? I would have ignored the hype and microscopic neuroticism and followed the traditional, tried and tested methods of razor honing.
Many beginners who wish to venture into honing seem to imagine that the more expensive or numerous their hones, the better the edge. Bonus points for a high res mirror finish.
After trying and purchasing a great deal of synthetic and natural hones, I now only use a coticule and a pasted strop for my sharpening needs.
Call it minimalist, romantic or whatever you wish. It works!
.
Absolutely agree - these stones are South of 50 years old, natural stones that have been used for what, centuries to sharpen razors, medical instruments and other tools? I'll use the synthetics to get to 12k, which is extreme even considering many posters here recall 8k being the highest and an Escher being 10-12k range would provide a luxurious edge. For me, a natural edge is as authentic as you can get, no crox or pastes afterward, just lots of leather, so the final stone that touches my razors is always a natural.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazor
YMMV.
You arrived late to the party -
Sorry but it is the truth..
When many of the opinions and ratings of Razors and Hones took place you have to understand things were different
Norton 4/8 were $65 and the 4k was made in the US and way better then it is now
Eschers were running about $100-$125 depending on size and grades
8x3 Select Grade Coticules, there were no fancy names, they were Standard or Select ie: No black inclusions or with black inclusions were about $75-$100
Stamped Nakayma with Nagura sets you could get for $150
SRP had about 2000 members
#14 Filarmonica were going for $100 NOS
Dubl Ducks were $25 for most to $125 for a Wonderedge
Wade & Butcher were $25 all day long
Other giant Sheffielders were even less
So yes if I had it to do over again I would spend the $100 I spent on my Blue/Green Escher that was sent with a 8x3 Thuringen also :p
Would I tell you to spend $500 + on one ???? Are you smoking crack ????
Heck, nobody wanted giant rusty Sheffields...
When I joined here in 2009 this was still pretty true, but things are relative. I got an 8/8 W&B chopper off another member for $40. And I felt I had been ripped off, lol. I was seriously upset about it. Can you imagine?! And telling SO at the time that I just got my first select coti off Gary for $100. $100 for a yellow stone!Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I still have that stone, however, and I still think it's magic. All the time and effort and frustration and pulling hair out and hope...
Yes. An Escher, which is a high quality graded thuringian can improve most any properly prepared edge. Each natural is different.Quote:
Originally Posted by J743
Mike
http://i.imgur.com/f2FnoII.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/H0muVlI.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...458e342986.jpg
They worth every penny, never see better edge and consistent performer for the same price.
A guy showed up at a meet, with literally a van full of boxed NOS Escher’s, Frictionites, and other like new stones, he’s been buying them for years, with a very unique method.
He does use a few, and knows how…
I’ll let him post if he wants, but he was way… ahead, of his time and now has a nice 401k…
