Worth a dang?

Still pondering stones, good ones, affordable ones, suitible for my needs.
I'm thrifty. I love a great, off the path product for cheap. I know, you generally get what you pay for. I think if I was full on committed to solely honeing straight razors with a hone, I'd go with the Nortons.
I'm still a dabler. That's some coin for a dedicated to straights only stone.
I was about to click the button on a King 1k/6k. Hmm doesn't seem to match the grit I'd like for an all around hone. I then found a Taidea 4k/8k. Anyone have experience with these. It is likely I'll also take it out to the shop to improve my chisels and planer blades to so a soft stone won't do it. Also a good reason not to put $80 in a hone. Imo

Then again the King 1k would be a good bevel set for blades in bad shape. 6k and pasted strop? Or demand 8k or bust?

Arrrggghhh

Thanks for the feedback.

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King 1 k and Norton 4/8 k are reasonably priced, what I have. It is a bit of an outlay, but unless you are honing hundreds of razors a year your not going to wear them out. A crox strop if you want to take it a bit further is a cheap option.

Yea, the Norton’s are hard to beat as are the Ninawa’s, they makes an economy line that is good, they are smaller and thinner but still quality stones.

Personally I would buy a full size stone for razors, the 4/8 Norton or the 3/8 Naniwa combo stones are a good value, buy them once.

You really do need at least an 8k to shave off of. When you look at edges you will see that a razor does not get really straight until after 8k.

You can make a 6k work, but why, for a few dollars more get a proven performer. Paste are a great alternative for finishing, but there is a learning curve and quality high grit paste can be pricy.

The King 1k is a fine 1k for razors at $20.

Stay away from the Taidea’s, they are small and soft, nothing but problems. For razors, it is not just about grit size, the binder, play a large part in successful razor honing.

Learning to hone is hard enough, learning to hone on cheap, aggressive stones is just frustrating.

I have the king 1/6, it is not bad but not the perfect single hone. I don't think there is such a thing. The Norton 4/8 ore the naniwa 3/8 are the closest things. I think the smallest stone collection has a 1k, approx 3k, approx 8k, and a 12k finisher.

This is a question for the hone section, not the honing section.

If you are a dabbler, start with a finishing hone, as it is the one needed and used most often. That is, touch ups are done more often than bevel setting. You could get by forever with just a Naniwa 12k.

If you want to be able to do more than just touch ups, then a Norton 4/8 is a great option, because you can set bevels with the 4k (with patience) and create a shaveable edge off of the 8k.

I wanted to do the same thing - off the beaten path and cheap. It didn't work out and ended up costing me more. It really does pay to do as Euclid440 and Utopian state and just get the 4/8K combo stone. It'll save you all kinds of cash and heartache, in that it'll do the majority of whatever it is you want done.

That said, I am a huge fan of the 1K. Setting the bevel, for me is king, and the 1K sets it in stone. The 4K will get there eventually. But then I buy eBay razors that aren't honed.

But yeah, if you have a honed razor, in theory a 12K could do everything you need were you to maintain regularly. Personally, I am more of a strop paste guy, but it's whatever.

Bottom line, get the 4/8 combo, master it and then look for things you feel would enhance the stone.

Am I the only one who read that he wants to use these to sharpen chisels and other tools also?

I don't think there is an all around hone to use on chisels, axes and wood plains that will work with getting a shave ready straight razor....


Maybe I am just crazy, but I think you would need two different categories of stones to accomplish what you are looking for.... :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Chevhead

Am I the only one who read that he wants to use these to sharpen chisels and other tools also?

Maybe I am just crazy, but I think you would need two different categories of stones to accomplish what you are looking for.... :shrug:

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No! What we are seeing here is someone from another world dipping his toe into the water. Looking for all sorts of excuses to justify buying a razor hone.
The only advice you need at the moment, Clayglen, is decide whether you want to get into razors/honing seriously or not. If not, get a barbers hone for $20 or less.

I have lapping film now and a swatty and Dovo paste. I've honed a few e bay razors and a few "shave ready".
Maybe the swatty can bridge the gap between 6k and finish.

I was looking for input on the Taidea.
If I honed more than 4 or 5 razors a year $80 Norton would be the way to go. I suppose in the long run $80 over 100yrs isn't a bad deal.

There aren't many hones that
go to 8k so that narrows the field. I don't want to by junk though even if it does part time work touching up tools in the shop. I also have hardware store hones that get the ball rolling. No axes, that's what the bench grinders and file is for.
Apologies if I posted in the wrong area. I didn't see "hones" last night.

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Taidea's suck large. I had a 3/8k combo. Bruta.

I had norton 4/8k. Hello!!! 10 x better.

I thought cheap chi ne hone be good. No good.
Bought the Norton after so did I save any money... no. I spent it twice.

A king 8k may be what you're looking for. They stock them at lee valley along with the "4"k. Good for tools too.

Don't worry about what category you posted in. The mods need something to do every once in a while and the category police need something to feel special.

Clay, take the excellent advice or not, but from what I have seen, you will save money in the long run with the Nortons and a King 1k. There really are a Thousand ways to go, so, experiment away and You know how much $$ you Don't want to spend.

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Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Taidea's suck large. I had a 3/8k combo. Bruta.

I had norton 4/8k. Hello!!! 10 x better.

I thought cheap chi ne hone be good. No good.
Bought the Norton after so did I save any money... no. I spent it twice.

A king 8k may be what you're looking for. They stock them at lee valley along with the "4"k. Good for tools too.

Don't worry about what category you posted in. The mods need something to do every once in a while and the category police need something to feel special.

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K that's what I was asking. Somewhat round about. Kings sound like what I'm looking for. Entry level, I guess. Sure sky is the limit, it seems. Norton will be my next step up.
I didn't think about it last night but my Swatty really should get there from a 6k.
Are there any other acceptable bargin hones out there other than Kings?

Another thought comes to mind. I currently use lapping film up to 1 micron. Where does that translate to in terms of grit?

Thanks!

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Ok, Lee Valley has a 1k/4k and an 8k $95. Final price check... wait... 220/1k. 4k/8k Norton with flattening "stone". $138. Done. I've agonized it long enough. That's more than seems reasonable for this stage but... I'm sure I won't be disappointed.

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Flatten the flattening stone before use. DMT8C is more often recommended for lapping though.

Arrrgghhhhh.

Lol

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Some low grit wet/dry sandpaper will handle flattening the flattening stone as long as you use it on a flat surface

Wheww, that's good news. Lol

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Welcome into the water. See, it's not so bad, is it?

Now to answer your next question, a naniwa 12k. And don't buy rubbish razors to practice honing on.

Hehe, I was thinking black or translucent Arkansas. Hehe. Coti's seem like vodoo. Lol
Honestly, my bigest hang up on naturals is I'm clueless.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clayglen

Hehe, I was thinking black or translucent Arkansas. Hehe. Coti's seem like vodoo. Lol
Honestly, my bigest hang up on naturals is I'm clueless.

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Stick with the synthetics for now, much easier learning curve.

1um film is 14-16k grit, you can go to .3um grit in film about 40-50K, you really don t need anything else, especially if you are just maintaining a hand full of razors. You only need to set the bevel one time, then just maintain it, unless you damage the edge.

If you hone on 1um flim with a piece of copy paper under, it will produce a very fine shaving edge.

Set the bevel on a King or any 1k, remove the 1k stria with 5um/4k film, then polish on 3um/8k and finish on 1um/14-16k or .3um 40-50k.

That will keep you shaving very well. Film is very aggressive and inexpensive and will produce an edge that will rival the finest stones.

If you want to buy good stones for the least amount of money, a King 1k, Norton 4/8 combo, a CKTG 400/1k diamond plate and quality Chrome Oxide is probably the cheapest way to go with a bullet proof progression that will last a life time. The whole thing will run you about $150.

The Norton lapping stone is rubbish.

Another recommendation for film if cheap is a concern. Works VERY well. Slow, annoying, sharp as all hell, but it works.

I recommend, if cheap is a concern, a dmt 600/1200 combo. 6 x 2. That's under 70 bones for all the honing needs in the world! Although I have a King, and have set bevels on it. They will take FOREVER. Seriously. The second coming of Jesus happens before the bevel is set on a razor with that thing. Cheap, yes? But lapping film is so unbelievably slow (think working through 6 Chinese 12k's of different grit), that to torment yourself with a King, you'll be honing a LONG time. Throw in a dmt bevel setter, you'll be right on your way. You can also keep pressure consistently light the entire time. Seriously. DMT and lapping film--honing on auto pilot.

If you do decide to go the film route, invest in a decent strop, and strop HEAVILY. Your face will thank you.

Which film, are you using?

A good Silicone Oxide and Aluminum Oxide, or Calcined Alumina film is very aggressive, (fast), last a long time and produces a fine, super straight edge.

Film is capable of producing a very keen edge, too keen, if .3um is used, but very comfortable with 1um and a paper backer.

If you are having that kind of problem, you are doing something wrong.

Neither is a King 1k slow, it is soft, but not slow. A 1k diamond plate can set a bevel but will leave a chippy edge and is not recommended as a bevel setter for a new honer.

My experience with film and the King 1k are not like yours.

Why are Norton flattening stones "rubbish". Not as flat as could be?
I can't say what the cutting agent for the film I've been using is but I've been happy with the results. I do find it's a bit "fussy". It needs to be kept moist or it slides off the glass tile, the .5u has suction tendancies that can add to the challenge and they to be trimmed to fit the tile properly (ragged edges mess with my ocd. ;-P). Not a big deal but soak and go seems like an upgrade. If I think I need a finisher above Dovo paste, I'll still use the 1u for now.
I really don't have anything bad to say about the film. It has served me well and for a new honer, I'd recommend it.

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The Norton flattening hone usually isn't flat and it is fairly soft and wear quickly and don't use them with any hard natural stone, I learned the hard way doing that and wore a groove in mine

So lap first and it's adequate for their stones?

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Yes, it is adequate for the Norton, and similar, synthetic hones as long as it has been lapped flat. It never was meant to be used on natural hones.

Well, first of all it is messy, they are not flat and do not stay flat and they are not all that fast.

A $35 400/1000 grit, diamond plate, is infinitely better, cleaner, quicker, no comparison to a messy, Norton lapping stone.

Cut your film with a paper cutter to size and use a 3x12 plate glass tile, lap it flat with a diamond plate and your film will not slip once squgeed to the glass plate.

You do have to use more water, use a squirt bottle and put your glass substrate on a stone holder over a plastic tray or cookie sheet to catch the excess water.

Some 1k wet/dry sandpaper will also set a bevel. There probably are people on the forum that just use sandpaper and film and hone razors very successfully

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Which film, are you using?

A good Silicone Oxide and Aluminum Oxide, or Calcined Alumina film is very aggressive, (fast), last a long time and produces a fine, super straight edge.

Film is capable of producing a very keen edge, too keen, if .3um is used, but very comfortable with 1um and a paper backer.

If you are having that kind of problem, you are doing something wrong.

Neither is a King 1k slow, it is soft, but not slow. A 1k diamond plate can set a bevel but will leave a chippy edge and is not recommended as a bevel setter for a new honer.

My experience with film and the King 1k are not like yours.

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I will agree with you on the king 1k. I only say it's slow when in comparison to my eze lap diamond hone. I set bevels on the king 1k all the time. It leaves the edge in a nice place for the next hone whatever that is. Usually when setting a bevel on a diamond hone I always joint the edge and reset it on something else. Micro chips will haunt you with a DMT or other diamond hone..

Moved to "Hones"

Well not such a big bargain on my buy but still, got me off the pot. If the lapping stone is crap, I'll lap on paper and a bit of glass.
I found the article in the library on stones. Norton 8k then my Swatty. I'm golden for now.

Now... coticles... hehe. (Facepalm)

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Your Swaty may or may not improve your 8k edge. Odds are greater that it will improve the edge if your Swaty has not been lapped.

Not lapped since I've had it. Pretty smooth. I'll see how it goes. If not back to 1u or pasted strop.

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