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I would never use them on my razors, but has anyone tried the cheap waterstones ~$16 for a double sided hone for knives? I have a Norton 4k/8K, plus Naniwa 12K for my razors I do not want to put my knives on them. I figure for around $16 hey might be usable with knives.
Why wouldnt you use your knife sharpening stones to sharpen your knives? Most knives will be fine after a 1k, but the 4k/8k is excellent if you need "sharper".
I would look for a vintage stone on an auction site or such. Search for 'Washita Stone" or "Arkansas stone" should be able to find something in that price range that is history proven for knives. heck some are great for razors as well.
Pick up a Chefs Knives to Go, 400/1k combo diamond plate, $35 and a Nubatama, 2k Green Brick, $58, or a hard Ark, or a $20, King 1k. Any of these stones with a diamond plate, will keep your knives smoking sharp.
The Green Brick is a hard, fast cutting 2k, that you can use one side for knives and the other for razors, after a1k, that will cut your 4k time considerably.
Arks are great for knives, and Diamond plates will get bevel flat and chip free in short order. The 1k Diamond plate leaves a nice edge on a knife.
Skip the cheap EBay stones, they are not worth the hassle.
I recently bought a set of Taideas as they were just in a sell out on ebay here in germany. 3.99 € for the 5000 or the 8000 single stone, 5.99 € for a 3000/8000 combination stone and 5.99 € for a 400/1000 one. So i have all stones from 400 to 8000 plus a diamondplate 360/600 for 3.99 €. I tested the complete setup from 1000 to 8000 on a gold dollar 209, all stones flattened on a 150 grid diamondplate. For the 5000 and the 8000 150 grid is a bit too coarse, you have a bit too much autoslurry on the first set of strokes. I had no problems with mircrodamage to the apex, but the finish was poor for 8000. Yes, you can shave after some stropping on linen and leather, but i suggest a proper natural stone as finisher. I got a small "15K" welsh slate, and it doesn't bother, wether you sharpened the razor with Naniwas or Taideas to 8000. :wQuote:
Originally Posted by rjezuit
So, some say we are just Hone snobs, and some of us are and proud of it. But for quality stones, it is not just about grit size and price. There are other things to take into consideration.
For sharpening knives, first is size. With a razor, you can get away with a small-er stone but for large kitchen knives, larger is better.
Grit, what is the grit? You want aggressive, but not too aggressive for finishers. Is the grit a mix or a single type of grit?
And lastly the binder, the heart of a stone, it should not be so soft, that it is constantly breaking down, so you don’t get an even bevel, and will not stay flat, especially at higher grits. Or too hard that it does not cut and glazes.
Additionally, how a knife is sharpened will largely depend on it use, and the knife’s steel quality, but for general kitchen use, a 1-4k edge is a good for most uses.
So, it is not just that cheap stones are inexpensive, they are poorly designed and intended for a one time or limited use market.
A quality stone is a life time purchase for razors and knives. Once you get used to sharp knives, you will look at knives completely differently and seek better quality knives.
If you buy good quality single grit stones for razors, use one side for razors, the other for knives. You will also need something in 2-300 grit, if the knives are not maintained regularly.
My bride is a very good cook, but she is death, on a knife edge, I often find a knife at the bottom of a sink full of dishes. I know it time to sharpen when I hear, “Hey mister uber-sharpener pants, my knife is duller than Charlie Rose…”
I usually touch up her favorites, once a week and keep 2 kitchen drawers of knives in wood holders, about a dozen, so there is always a sharp knife handy.
BTW a good steel, diamond or ceramic rod, will get you through a task till you can put it on a hone. Chef Knives to Go is a good source for quality kitchen knife stuff.
Oh,, you slipped up this time !! " mister uber-sharpener pants" :roflmao
I'm gonna use this one someday . ;)
This is what I do, most stones have printing on the side, I look at it as the "top" side is for razors, and bottom for knives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
But I am a complete stamp whore, so if my stones have huge stamps on the top, like the "naniwa Snow White Original" I reserve it for only razors, but that is my own stupidity.
If this is not "legal", please delete. This is the stone in 2k/5k. For ~16.00 it might be a paper weight. But I do not want to ruin my
razor stones by sharpening knives on them. Grit Dual Whetstone Knife Sharpener Water Stone 2000/5000 3000/8000 1000/4000
You won't ruin your stones by sharpening a knife on it. I use all my stones with my kitchen/hunting/pocket knives(even my $, $$$ jnats). Unless you think you'll gouge the crap out of your stone, but if that's the case you probably shouldn't be sharpening knives anyway. If it's the cheap route your after, I don't see those ones being an issue. Just know you get what you pay for and they may not be all that good.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjezuit
For ~$16 they are worth a shot. If they are garbage, I'll look for something better. Thanks for the replies.
Remember: buy cheap buy twice. Are you rich enough to buy twice?
If you have a sharp kitchen knife a sharpening rod is all you need. I have one from Sabatier, my kitchen knives never see a stone.
If you use a wooden or synthetic cutting board it is nigh impossible to ruin the edge.
Assuming you know how to sharpen the knives, I would not hesitate to tell you to use the same stones as you use for your razors. If you feel uncomfortable, then going for a cheaper stone is the way to go.
I would never use the same hone for knives and razors unless you are happy to lap the hone every time you start honing a razor after sharpening a knife. But maybe I am too obsessed with flatness.
Well, i have a rather small arkansas stone to sharpern my knives, but i must say i'm waiting for my 4k/8K norton for trying it on my knife.. i bet i will splice tomatoes with just the weight of the knife ;)
I have a Norton 2220/1K and a 4K/8K and a Naniwa 12K. Love them all for my razors, but don't want to ruin them for razors by sharpening knives on them. The 2K/5K will be her Monday. If it's junk, it was only $16. I have spent more on beer in an evening.
I'm not trying to be rude here, but could you please elaborate on how using a knife on the stone will "ruin" it for razors? These stones are very tough, and designed for use with knives. I personally, as well as thousands of others, have used the norton stones to sharpen knives many times. The average user, who doesn't sharpen professionally, could sharpen as many knives as you could imagine, and still have a stone with enough meat on it to pass down to the next generation. Why get more stones, of lesser quality, if it's not necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjezuit
I've read All of the posts here so far and while you won't 'ruin' your razor hones, why not send the money to get something that has been used for decades by meat cutters (myself included/I own two/one vintage made of cast iron and this one) and many others who use knives on a regular basis;Quote:
Originally Posted by rjezuit
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/N...em-P48C65.aspx
For $20 more you can get an Arkansas
My dad told me to buy good tools as they will last you a lifetime. He's been dead for 17 years and his tools are still going strong! :tu
I don't cut meat professionally. I realize you get what you pay for, and if I cut for a living I would get a better stone. Kind of like shopping at Harbor Freight for a tool you use every so often. As far as ruining the stones, it is more about my skills in honing a knife blade as opposed to the stone. I just see that the stones I have used in the past for knife sharpening get hollowed out. Rather keep my "good" stones flat. It's $16. If it's junk I will use it as a paper weight.
I have stones that I use for both knife & razor honing & have had no problem. Once you get a knife sharp & keep it sharp a steel is all you should need for touch ups.
I am very careful with all of my stones & would be hard pressed to damage a stone from sharpening a knife every now & then.
Slawman
In a general sense, when we buy cheap we'll likely have to buy again.
There's good reason why Belgian Ardennes Coticule are expensive: http://www.ardennes-coticule.be/en Buy one and you'll never have to buy another.
Arrived today. I will try it and let you know how it goes.
Well, honed up my Ka-Bar knife today on the cheap stone. Have to say I am impressed. Soaked it a few minutes and kept it wet and it put a nice edge on the knife. Worth the $16 to me.
My advice is that you take everything I say with a grain of salt, but...
I am a bit of a snob that my tools are as sharp as I can reasonably get them and I endeavor to keep them that way. As a wood carver who forges and grinds most of his tools, I feel obliged to take care of them, as a straight razor user and little bit of a collector I have a strong appreciation for a razor that actually cuts my beard rather than ripping it out from the roots so sharp is better. That being said when I sharpen stuff I usually start with a high quality wet polishing paper (Buhler brand is my favorite) and set the bevel using the finest (P1200 or higher). I set the paper on a true flat surface that is dedicated to that purpose and lightly work my way up to the finest paper I have which is P4000. My research tells me this P rating is very close to the grit on stones. For decades I went from there to chromium oxide and a strop and declared it done. You fine folks convinced me to get me a water stone so I got a cheap (china) 3k/8k that I later was told was junk. Maybe I really don't know what good is, but that thing sure puts a fine polish on the edge and does a heck of a job as a quickie touch-up. For my straight bladed knives I usually use the 5 Arkansas that have been in my family for 3 generations.
Correction to the above, the finest wet paper I use in my missive above is the US grade 1200 which is he European F1000 (5 micron) and similar to the 4k grit water stone but a little more abrasive. Need a light hand.
It’s not so much, that cheap water stones are junk, just that the binders are usually soft so the stones slurry easily.
For tool and knives were a 1k edge is fine and 4k even, more better, those stones are fine. Though a knife tip or chisel corner can gouge a soft stone, nothing lapping will not fix.
The Traditional line of Naniwa stones are great work horses and value, for tools, knives and even razors.
Ark edge on either, are hard to beat and harder to damage with a knife tip. Even with all my stones, still love an Ark Edge.