I've been reading about 1, 2 and 3 Line SWATY Hones, but dont know the significance of the number of lines. I have a 4 Line stone. Can someone tell me if that means it's special, a reject, top grade, no grade, or what? Thanks. :shrug:
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I've been reading about 1, 2 and 3 Line SWATY Hones, but dont know the significance of the number of lines. I have a 4 Line stone. Can someone tell me if that means it's special, a reject, top grade, no grade, or what? Thanks. :shrug:
Pretty sure the 1, 2 or 3 line designation refers only to the number of lines printed on the hone, e.g. a 2 line might read :
Franz Swaty
Marburg, Austria
couldn't tell you if yours was particularly rare, or what its equivalent grit might be.
sounds interesting though.
John P.
I have a swaty thats called a "3 Line' Randydance maybe able to help you with that he is a rock nut...lol
Never heard of a 4 line Swaty. Just use it and see what happens. It is probably 6000 grit or finer.
What are the specs on the 3 lines? i have one of them.
Not real sure on the specs... the 2-line were made by the father, the third line was added after he died. if you are lacking directions for use here they are... they are aboutthe only barber hone instructions that tell you basically to repeat as needed until sharp... no wonder they sold 3+ million of them
i cannot rember where i snagged them from, probably some place on the forum though
Swatys have an interesting history, would make for an interesting research project. Ive had 2 of the 3 line Swatys, one was a NOS in the box double textured combination hone that read:
THE SWATY
THREE LINE
DIAMOND HONE
The other one that I still have is a nice used single texture hone that reads:
FRANZ SWATY
WAHRING BEI WIEN
(AUSTRIA)
Are they both 3 line hones? I suppose. Ive also read of knock off Swatys that may (or may not be) fairly decent.
fwiw.
Dave
I'm searching for info about a Wahring Bei Wien Swaty, too. Nothing yet.
Regards
These two links provide info about Swaty (the company; first link for early history), and original era usage instructions in Englsih for the stones:
http://www.swaty.si/index.php?id=18&L=1
http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/1S...orHones-ne.pdf
What I found interesting in reading some of the vintage advertising in the back of the book of Razors 3rd Edition was that 3 line Swatys were included/given away as part of a promotion for another unrelated product (some sort of strop dressing IIRC).
I also find it's interesting that the Swaty instructions talk of basically honing until sharp. All other references to barber hones I've seen stress 4-6 laps to avoid overhoning. So far, 4-6 laps does not work for me with barber hones. As a matter of fact, just this morning I did 6 laps with one of my razors on a "Perfect" hone which is high grit like the Swaty with 75 passes on the strop. Weight of the blade only and the edge is not close to shave ready (it was in need of a touch up prior to taking it to that hone, but definitely was a comfortably shaving razor prior to needing the touch up).
Now, I'm going to try using the Perfect hone and my 3 line Swaty and hone like I would on a high grit natural and see what happens.
Chris L
I just got a Franz Swaty hone and I have a dumb newbie question: after lapping the stone can I use both sides?
Yes you can. I have a few of them and one of them has the original instructions. The interesting thing on this one is that it said the side with the company name is the "sharper" side. I can't prove it but I think they are all basically the same.
IMO, the three line became popular with barbers and they asked the traveling salesmen who came to their shops for them. Hence Swaty and other mfgs actually printing "3 Line Razor Hone" on the rocks. I have an American Hone Co marked like that.
Thanks. It's great to have a website with nice people who share your interests, and are so willing to help!
In the early '80s I got a 3 line Swaty and a Belgian Coticule from a barber in New Jersey. He demonstrated his honing with both. On the Belgian with hot lather from the Lather King machine and dry on the Swaty.
On both he stressed only a few laps and the weight of the blade only. It is no wonder that following his instructions I could never get a razor sharp back then and gave it up shortly thereafter. Sure glad I found this site.
Well yes, no and maybe. :D It depends on the razor and the condition of the edge when you take it to whatever hone you are messing with. My point after having read ChrisL's post is that the misinformation commonly handed out about Swatys by the barbers I've known is common. There it is right in the instructions Swaty distributed with their hones, "Should it not be sharp enough commence the same process until the required sharpness is produced."
There is way more to it than that in terms of making sure the bevel is set and then sharpening the razor in a grit progression or with pyramids, or a combination of the two. I got a Bartmann Manganese off of ebay a few weeks ago. Checked it with the 30X and it looked good.
Did one conservative pyramid with the Norton 4/8 and it was popping hair to beat the band. A lot of strokes were not necessary on that particular razor but they are all individual and some need more then others.
If you haven't already checked out the honing tutorials in the Wiki do so. A lot of good info in there.
Währing is the name of a so called "bezirk" (an area of a city) in Vienna (Wien). It seems that Mr. Swaty was living there.
Welcome to SRP. Many of us are interested in the history of the Swaty barber hones and in possibly dating them by the different inscriptions embossed in the hones. We need a 'detective' who lives in Vienna to search through the archives of business licenses and such to try and come up with the details. I wonder if there are many Swatys to be found in Vienna where they were manufactured for so long ?
Well, I am an expat in Vienna. But, I'll look around antique stores to see if there are still some. What exactly do you want to learn about the company story?
There are variations in the stamping/embossing of the logo on the Swaty hones. Some have three lines of text while others have two lines and there are some that will say "Formerly of Marburg Austria". Still others Yugoslavia. There are also differing instructions. Some say that the hone is two sided, coarse/fine while others do not. Here is a thread where some of this is discussed. BTW, I didn't mean to volunteer you to be a Swaty detective. :) OTOH, if you find old Swaty hones and can pick them up at a reasonable price there is a large market for them in the SRP classifieds and of course on ebay.
Austria was formerly called Austrian/Hungarian empire and some parts of Hungary as well as Slovenia, Czech republic was part of Austrian empire before WW-I. That explains "formerly of .." part and why some of the stones are marked with Yugoslavia. In fact, I found that there is still a Swaty company in Slovenia (a former Yugoslavian republic).
Curious. Do they still manufacture sharpening stones?
So you too got a dual grit Swaty Three Line Diamond hone as well? Some time ago there was a discussion here and I seemed to be the only one with a dual grit, which elicited the comment that mine might be a fake one.
BARBER hones characteristics - Page 4 - Straight Razor Place Forums
I missed that thread or that post anyway. That is a really cool hone. I don't think it is imitation FWIW. It seems that a guy could have a collection of Swaty variants in stampings, length and grit types. Really interesting IMO.
Here is another old Swaty thread with some stamping variants in a couple of long ones as well as a variant set of instructions.
Yes, but not for straight razors, their stones are meant for industrial use and I have not found any higher grit than 400 on their web site. Check it out yourself: www.swaty.si
Oh man! So many comments and I have so little time...
First, there was a reference to a one line Swaty. Is there such a thing???
Second, does anyone have any evidence that a hone imprinted with the phrase "three line hone" was actually made by Swaty? I have always considered them to be clones ripping off the popularity of the Swaty? I know one was made by Pike and one was made by the American Hone Company, as I have some of each of them, so those are obviously clones not made by Swaty. Which "three line hone" was made by Swaty?
just came across this thread and was very interested. So I am posting so I can subscribe and keep updated on it's progress. :)
Swaty provenance - Straight Razor Place Forums
I actually was really interested in this for a while. Here is a distillation of what I have gleaned:
Original was the 3-line: Franz Swaty, Wahring bei Wien (Austria)
Then his son did the Marburg 2-line: Franz Swaty, Marburg Austria (someone has a packaging insert that states this)
Then the 4-line: Franz Swaty Maribor Jugoslavia Fruher Marburg Austria (logical, they changed the stamp to the new location and nationality of Maribor/Marburg, and had to let people know it was the same, Fruher is German for earlier)
Then another 2-line: Franz Swaty, maribor Jugoslavia
At some point, Swaty's were distributed by SR Droescher, and had a sticker on the side to this effect. At a later point (I believe), they were distributed by Pike, and had a sticker on the side to this effect as well. It said something "Pike sole US distributors of the original Swaty hone".
For some reason, the FS, WbW (A) 3-line was popular and barbers/customers used to ask for it as a 3-line, so as a marketing ploy (after Swaty stopped I believe) Pike made a (literally) "The Franz Swaty 3- Line Razor Hone" and it is stamped that on the hone.
I have a barber hone that resembles a Swaty in all regards, color, size, texture.... In the logo section in raised letters it says;
DREI REIHEN
RASEIR
MESSERSTEIN
(Three Line Hone)
The last in parenthesis is in italicized script. I have the impression this hone was made by the American Hone Co but I am not sure where I got that impression from.
So do I have a real 3 line Swaty?
Just got it from Ebay, it's my first hone. Looks to be about 6x2.
Has a bit of weird white stuff on it, but otherwise it looks free of wear.
How old do you think it is? It's killing me to wait for my DMT D8C before trying it out.
Well, I'm finally in the club too. From a retiring Vienna barber I got this long two line Swaty, in excellent condition, with box and paper:
Attachment 35471
Attachment 35472
Attachment 35473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaty Aviso
Attachment 35474Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaty Notice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaty Gebrauchsanweisung
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaty Direction for use
A dual grit Swaty by the looks of it!:)
Question:
After reading this thread I gleaned out that one can use Emery paper to "sand" or "flatten" ones SWATY to return it to a flat surface.
My question is, can one use a LAPPING STONE on a SWATY?
Before I do it I want to ask those who KNOW! ;)
THX!
~Phil
PS....
What's a good price to pay for a SWATY that's in excellent condition?
Phil, IME a swaty is a bear to lap. A DMT D8C 325 will work but will take a lot of time and wear on the plate. A DMT D8XX 120 grit will eat the swaty for breakfast and cry for more. What I do with barber hones now is clean the surface with Comet and a Scotch Brite pad. I try them without lapping.
The majority of the old barbers did not lap them. IME many of them will work fine as is with the requisite X stroke and lapping may not be necessary. Swatys in good shape seem to go in the $50 range give or take a few bucks. OTOH, I haven't been paying much attention so that estimate may be low or high. All of the above is just IMHO. :shrug:
The real reason I ask about "lapping" mine is because it's a hand-me-down heirloom that had been carelessly bumped about and there are quite a few chips around the edges on BOTH sides of the stone. That's why I asked about "lapping" mine.
What's your opinion on that - knowing more details?
Thx in advance...... :)
In my experience (a few Swatys have passed through my hands) they are a BITCH to lap. I don't think you could do it with the "soft" lapping stones like the Norton or Naniwa- I think the swaty would eat through them. Using sandpaper was fine but it CHEWS through paper like breakfast. Even with a diamond hone its no small task. Also I think I agree with Jimmy- no one used to and from my limited testing its not a big deal.
Whether you lap it or not, at least smooth the chips- either by beveling the edge or just spot sanding them so they're slightly recessed and smooth. Both will be a lot easier than trying to lap them out.
With regards to price, typically it's not discussed. I got all of mine for $20 or less (I was lucky) and regret selling some of them at prices between $25 and $35. The one I kept I have gotten such good use out of that personally it's worth a lot more. They seem to go for $50 nowadays and that seems pretty steep but I guess its a question of usage. I have one barber hone (the Swaty) that I use weekly, so if I had to do it again, I would pay more. However, back when I was experimenting I wasn't gonna fork over $$$$ for somethign I wouldn't end up using. The worth is up to you.