New stone Japanese natural, Ozuku Asagi

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This is the Ozuku Asagi natural stone I wrote about yesterday. Like the Wakasa, it is a full sized stone at 212 x 78 x 38 and 3 lb 10 oz or 1664 grms. I also bought this one from Takeshi at Aframes tokyo. since those photos I have now lapped it completely, so the identifying stamps are gone, preserved only by the photos. In my post about the Wakasa,I wrote that this Ozuku was supposedly finer than it, (Wakasa), I can report that it took some lapping, with a good 25 minutes of hard work with an Atoma 600, but once it was flat, I had a brief play with it, with some slurry, and it is a very hard and fine finishing natural. Aframestokyo described it as a hone for finishing razors, and from all accounts it seems to be exactly that. I have a razor in mind to put on this stone, and its a TI C 135 steel, so should respond well to this type of natural. I point out too, that this is a double sided stone, although I haven't lapped the other side yet, but doesn't have the toxic skin, is seemingly the same as the primary surface. Its just another option.
I wrote yesterday I was relieved at how good an edge was obtained from the Wakasa. What it has done though is the normal side effect of once again looking for other 'opportunities' as to possible other jnat acquisitions. Has anyone had any good luck with Shobu stones, sometime known as shoubudani. I have left the most lauded stones alone (Nakayama) as they cost a lot, and a lot of that is on reputation, so I figured I'd rely on advice from a trusted source. I'd still be interested in members views on the Shobu mined stones. I know JNS have sold a lot of Shoubu-dani, at fairly cheap prices compared to the Ozuku pictured. So any views are welcomed. When I do go through with a razor on the Ozuku I will show some pictures of the stone, post lapping, and its colour differences when wet to the Wakasa. One video actually of Keith Johnston, showing a number of different types of stones, and then using a finishing Ozuku in the demonstation , was a great help. As far as Im concerned, Nagura progressions, and tomonagura are a bit above my station at the moment, but at some stage I'll look at them.
Bob
I should mention that I sealed the four sides with Shellac, and the same with the Wakasa. ( I left the bottom side alone as it may be lapped and used in its own right)

I have a shoubudani mizu asagi that I like a lot. It is a nice 6"x2" that I use as finishing stone with just water. I flattened mine with sandpaper as I didn't want to risk my plate, went 400,800,1200 to give it somewhat polished feel. I really enjoy the stone but don't have anything to compare it to jnat wise , planning on getting either an ozuku or another shoubudani full size. I enjoy the grey cloudy look some of these stones have.

All of the mines (Nakayama not being an exception) produced stones of various grit size equivalents. If you are looking for a shoubudani finisher you better discuss with a reputable dealer what you are looking for and see whether they can fix you up.

I too have a Shobu asagi that I got from Keith in fact. It's an excellent finisher and if you can find one like it I think you'd be happy. I do have several finishing stones to compare it with - mostly Nakayama and it holds up quite well against them. Problem is that all these stones are very individual and just because I or someone else likes a certain XYZ stone doesn't mean your experience would be the same. The reputable dealer part mentioned above is important I believe.

The allure of the natural stones is strong. People get caught up in the romanticism of them. About 18 months ago I went down the coticule path. I'm not criticising coticules generally, but I had no good fortune in them. I bought two 8 x 3 select grades, and another two bouts. After converting half a dozen razors over to their edge I was disappointed badly. The shave wasn't good at all. I'm not arrogant enough to blame the coticule entirely, but I do know how to hone. I sold them at a loss.
Now I've gone back into naturals. I bought the stones above, the Ozuku then the Wakasa. I've gotten great results from both of them, so now I have that confidence to really contemplate getting a few more. If feel, that the noise about them is justified. I remember when I first got edges from the Gok 20 and raved about how sharp they were. They are still the sharpest edges going round! They are acute though, really clinically sharp, one slip and your cut!.
I noticed with my Ozuku that, yeah they were sharp, they did a nice job. Not a Gok 20 edge, but a toned down version, it felt as though I could have closed my eyes and not cut myself. I guess they are more forgiving. That's not a bad thing. Anybody have any conclusions coming off 20k edges?

No experience with a SG20k, but I can tell you, Shobu stones can be really good. The ones I've had the pleasure to try are very hard, and possess very strong cutting power on slurry (for finishing stones). It means they can give you a range of edges, from very mellow and forgiving as you say, to very sharp and harsh (for my skin at least).

I will agree, jnats are easier to work with than coticules, although I use a few lately... got one vintage La Petite Blanche that will likely stay with me permanently. Owned and sold a La Dressante, Las Petas, La Verte.. tried a La Grise a few times, didn't care for it at all. I also use a La Veinette, but mostly for mid range work when I feel like it. I can't seem to consistently make the transition from slurry to water, so that I get rid of all the deep scratches. This is a non-issue on my jnats, no matter the mine they came from.

That is a very nice Ozuku by the way, it will likely outlive us all!

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Originally Posted by bobski

Has anyone had any good luck with Shobu stones, sometime known as shoubudani. I have left the most lauded stones alone (Nakayama) as they cost a lot, and a lot of that is on reputation, so I figured I'd rely on advice from a trusted source. I'd still be interested in members views on the Shobu mined stones. I know JNS have sold a lot of Shoubu-dani, at fairly cheap prices compared to the Ozuku pictured. So any views are welcomed.

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I have a Shoubudani Su nashi Suita which is an excellent prepolisher after 5-8k. The Shoubu Asagi I had was an ok finisher but I preferred my Nakayama as a final stone.

From Japan-Tool website ~

Shoubudani:
The origin of Shoubudani quarry is about 800 years ago.

Shoubudani and Nakayama stones were patronized by the Imperial household, for its superior quality used for polishing swords. These stones have never been traded among the commonality between Kamakura period(1185~1333) to mid Muromachi period (1336~1573). It was at the end of Muromachi when these stones appered within the general market, although the better stones were still monopolised by the royalities, the stones with lines and odd shapes were used by the craftsmen and carpenters, and this contributed to the drastic improvement in quality of their works.

If you are familiar with Japanese natural finishing stones, I suppose you have heard of the name Hon-yama. The name Hon-yama is used by any finishing stones nowadays so it mearly means "finishing stone" now, but this name originally was the nick name for Shoubudani mountain. Nakayama is also one of the quarry from this mountian. Honma Tou-zaemon Toki-nari has been appointed as the leader of mining by the famous Shogun of Kamakura period Minamotono Yoritomo in 1190. Thus the mountain was called Honma's mountain = Hon-yama. "Yama" means mountain. Shoubu-dani and Nakayama stones are the only genuine Hon-yama stone.

Ozuku:
One of the treasured Higashi-mono, Oozuku has a very fine grain, usually quite hard, and sometimes too hard and scratchy.

Ozuku had variety of stones quarried, from Shiki Suita at the bottom to Tenjyou Suita at the top. The quarrying has been stopped for decades but the rough stones that has been quarried is being processed and made into products.

Thanks Oz, that's great information, I'll certainly enjoy examining that period of stone/blade development. I recall studying the Meiji period when the first trade began with Japan and the subsequent discoveries by westerners of Japanese iron/steel methods. It's an intoxicating topic, gives an idea of real traditions over much longer periods of times.
Cheers Bob

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Originally Posted by bobski

The allure of the natural stones is strong. People get caught up in the romanticism of them. About 18 months ago I went down the coticule path. I'm not criticising coticules generally, but I had no good fortune in them. I bought two 8 x 3 select grades, and another two bouts. After converting half a dozen razors over to their edge I was disappointed badly. The shave wasn't good at all. I'm not arrogant enough to blame the coticule entirely, but I do know how to hone. I sold them at a loss.
Now I've gone back into naturals. I bought the stones above, the Ozuku then the Wakasa. I've gotten great results from both of them, so now I have that confidence to really contemplate getting a few more. If feel, that the noise about them is justified.

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I had a similar fight with a coticule. Only bought one, but getting a shaving edge off it was truly a trial. I even started with a blade that was shaving nicely and used the coticule as a finisher only, the stone ruined it. I was surprised to say the least. I did finally get it to work, but it took probably 3 weeks of trial and error. I haven't pulled the stone out since I finally got a good edge off it.

By comparison, I've got a small Shoubudani from JNS that I got a wonderful edge off of the first time I put it to use. Little bit on the keen/nippy side of things, but thats easily fixed by stropping and I'd rank it high on my list of favorite hones.

I hear you Marshal, but let's leave the Coticule guys alone, there must be some Cotis out there you can shave off....lol

Totally feel your pain Marshall, for a long time I felt coticules were for the most part garbage. Then I started focusing in on certain veins and I have to tell you, there are some awesome coticules out there.

I try hard not to knock them. Just because mine was hard to work with doesn't mean they all are. I'll probably buy another down the road, but I'm not just gonna buy another one from Ardennes sight unseen. I'll wait until I can either try it out, or at least get a known good stone that someone is simply looking to trade off in the classified section. That won't be anytime soon though.

I think I may give that and my Jnat a revisit. I've not used either in a while, I'd like to see how they perform following my 12k synthetic. That was also intended as a response to your question about Shoubudanis too. I'm fond of mine. I almost hate to say it, but the little fella gives my translucent Arkies a run for their money.

I was told they can have little black inclusions that can be toxic/detrimental to honing. My stone has black dots, but they're not detrimental. That's something to be mindful of if you pick one up. But overall I'm happy with it.

The best advice that I respect is pointing me to acquiring some nagura stones, from Botan to Mejiro to Tomo. It's all a learn for me at the moment, my only plan was to get a few genuine very hard, fine finishing jnats and go to them after a 10k synthetic edge. That's what I've done do far, but of course I'll advance my thoughts by listening to other more knowledgeable folks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobski

It's all a learn for me at the moment, my only plan was to get a few genuine very hard, fine finishing jnats and go to them after a 10k synthetic edge.

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That's all you need. Of course if you wanna play in the mud, ie Nagura, it can be fun.

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Above is a photo from my USB 400x cheap scope, it is the final edge on a Dovo 6/8 Stainless blade, from the Ozuku Asagi. I took it from a 10k Naniwa Superstone, then fairly light strokes with slurry made from DN, I let the slurry dry out a fair bit as I lightened things right off to blade weight only. I stropped it up on the Kanayama and had a comfortable shave. (This photo is pre the stropping). It wasn't a spectacular shave, I still have some technique to smooth out, but more than acceptable. The photo is a little blurred but the best I can do on the USB device. Under my loupe it looks better than this fairly high magnification. Any comments or advice is welcome.
Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobski

Above is a photo from my USB 400x cheap scope, it is the final edge on a Dovo 6/8 Stainless blade, from the Ozuku Asagi. I took it from a 10k Naniwa Superstone, then fairly light strokes with slurry made from DN, I let the slurry dry out a fair bit as I lightened things right off to blade weight only. I stropped it up on the Kanayama and had a comfortable shave. (This photo is pre the stropping). It wasn't a spectacular shave, I still have some technique to smooth out, but more than acceptable. The photo is a little blurred but the best I can do on the USB device. Under my loupe it looks better than this fairly high magnification. Any comments or advice is welcome.
Bob

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It's a nicely polished bevel. If you dilute the slurry as you go, even down to plain water for an experiment, the edge may well improve more.

Where you are now, adding 5-6 strokes, at a time, on the gok 20 may get the same results or better.
Test shave between groups of 5 not to push things over the edge, pun intended.

For some JNats I get a much more comfortable edge with tomo slurry. Before you attribute that "not quite there" comfort level to your lack of skill, try some work after that 10k with tomo slurries. The straight water or dilution is worth trying as well, but I never seem to have much luck with that on very hard JNats unless it is very few strokes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobski

The allure of the natural stones is strong. People get caught up in the romanticism of them. About 18 months ago I went down the coticule path. I'm not criticising coticules generally, but I had no good fortune in them. I bought two 8 x 3 select grades, and another two bouts. After converting half a dozen razors over to their edge I was disappointed badly. The shave wasn't good at all. I'm not arrogant enough to blame the coticule entirely, but I do know how to hone. I sold them at a loss.
Now I've gone back into naturals. I bought the stones above, the Ozuku then the Wakasa. I've gotten great results from both of them, so now I have that confidence to really contemplate getting a few more. If feel, that the noise about them is justified. I remember when I first got edges from the Gok 20 and raved about how sharp they were. They are still the sharpest edges going round! They are acute though, really clinically sharp, one slip and your cut!.
I noticed with my Ozuku that, yeah they were sharp, they did a nice job. Not a Gok 20 edge, but a toned down version, it felt as though I could have closed my eyes and not cut myself. I guess they are more forgiving. That's not a bad thing. Anybody have any conclusions coming off 20k edges?

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I never liked the gok edge. I don't think it's more refined, I think it's less.

I found the same thing with coticules as you. You can finish with all of the ones suitable for razors, but they are not as reliable as jnats (jnats are generally different in speed, but only lacking fineness if a seller lies to you and says something like "you can finish a razor with this stone with a little work". Good jnats don't require you to do much other than rub a razor on them, and good doesn't mean expensive, it just means fine with no toxic stuff and not too soft).

In my opinion, natural stone edges stay more consistent and are more amenable to linen (good linen, not some modern coarse untreated incantation) and good leather.

I sold my gok a long time ago. It makes a usable edge, but because of the mechanism of delivery, short of what you could do if you just used graded chromium oxide. You will get better with the jnats than you are with the gok. I never use any powders any longer, just natural stones and seldom honing.

Side comment - I'd bet 100 years ago, people using coticules both had better stones on average (the ones that pike imported, etc) for razors and at the same time, often didn't remove the entire edge when honing, because the edge that's been subjected to a couple of hundred trips to good leather and linen will surpass any edge that's freshly honed. You just have to mind the thickness of the edge itself and work the bevel to keep it from getting fat and dull.

I hear you re the Gok 20. I'd never sell mine as I've had several years of great edges from it. That being said, I'm visiting family this weekend and I picked out a razor for my trip. I used Dovo Bismarck that before leaving home, gave 6 laps on the gok20. First shave was close, but a few hours later I ended up with a weeper. Bloody annoying, when I get home I'll put it on my hardest natural I have, the Wakasa,

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Originally Posted by bobski

I hear you re the Gok 20. I'd never sell mine as I've had several years of great edges from it. That being said, I'm visiting family this weekend and I picked out a razor for my trip. I used Dovo Bismarck that before leaving home, gave 6 laps on the gok20. First shave was close, but a few hours later I ended up with a weeper. Bloody annoying, when I get home I'll put it on my hardest natural I have, the Wakasa,

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You do realise the Gok20 is finer than any Jnat that exists so the edge is therefore sharper. To avoid weepers is literally in your hands ie less pressure & flat angle.

@ DaveW : I can't fault the Gok 20 edges. YMMV.

To take a penetrating glimpse of the obvious, the 1st shave after a 20k touch up is a little less forgiving because it is such a fine stone. So in the future I'll be a little more circumspect with my technique on a fresh 20k edge.....lol

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

You do realise the Gok20 is finer than any Jnat that exists so the edge is therefore sharper. To avoid weepers is literally in your hands ie less pressure & flat angle.

@ DaveW : I can't fault the Gok 20 edges. YMMV.

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I wouldn't say I fault them. They are what they are - a half micron alumina edge. If anyone would say you can't shave with them, they'd be fibbing. They are a bit brash, though - compared to an edge that's been teased with linen and leather for a while. Not any sharper, but less smooth. Such an edge isn't something a pro honer can supply, though - it takes a shaver time to develop an edge that has correct geometry but where the edge itself is without damage and the molecules exposed at the edge have not seen a stone or abrasive as hard as steel.

If one is to use a natural stone and try to use it like a synthetic, the edge will come out better with the Gok 20. I was expecting something unrealistic from it, though - something better than chrome ox powder on very hard horse butt. It doesn't do that. I do like that it can (or at least could at the time) be had for about 2 bills and in a stone that will last 9 lifetimes vs. the very thin looking glasstone.

I would take most natural koppa or an ark stone over it. The particles are larger in both types of those natural stone, but their hardness is in the range of iron carbides, so skill can overcome the particle size issue if you have time with them, especially if time means lots of iteration and a "relationship" with each stone (the first time someone told me about developing a relationship with a quality natural stone, I thought they were full of poo - I have learned since then that you can use a different term that's less romantic, but the thought is relevant. It's like woodworking. Sometimes you're looking just to do something well woodworking, but not necessarily obsessed with "getting better". You use familiar tools and somehow you get better, anyway, due to familiarity and repetition).

For the first year that I used natural stones, I'm sure I would've gotten better results with a gok. I also have the advantage that you and others have, I've been through some natural stones and found stones that I like. If I got a run of the mill shoubu stone that should have been sold as a prefinisher, I couldn't make magic with it and match the gok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobski

The best advice that I respect is pointing me to acquiring some nagura stones, from Botan to Mejiro to Tomo. It's all a learn for me at the moment, my only plan was to get a few genuine very hard, fine finishing jnats and go to them after a 10k synthetic edge. That's what I've done do far, but of course I'll advance my thoughts by listening to other more knowledgeable folks.

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You'll get a different answer from everyone you ask. I think a good coarse stone to precede japanese stones is an arkansas stone, and not a synthetic. It's been my experience that you get in less trouble because a slurry-less ark stone will usually not damage an edge whereas some razors just won't tolerate synthetic routines. I have chisels from a highly regarded maker. They're so hard that they will fail late in the honing routine from damage taken early on (for example, if you try to grind the primary angle on them with a crystolon stone, the edge will crumble at later steps. Diamonds are completely out of the question. For chisels, that's a pain, because you are taking the hardest thing you can find and then restricting yourself to slower stones - which means users need to be able to avoid any kind of damage other than regular wear.).

As far as razors go, I would presume that may be possible with razors, too - that some razors will prefer a more gentle groove. I never got on with the nagura, though it's the same idea - the truly genuine asano naguras have gotten very expensive, and there seem to be tons of them popping up (just like there are all of the sudden a lot of vintage fender guitars - the reality is that a lot of those guitars are fakes).

For razors, a good quality suita stone is also an acceptable pre-polisher. I like those for tools and have learned to appreciate them for razors. They don't need to be big. A $100 175x65mm stone is the same as one 35mm longer, 15 wider and twice as thick, except the large stone will be $500. They get you on the doorstep of a finisher, and take away the need for the finisher to be fast. And they aren't harsh - they're reasonably fast, but mellow at the same time.

As for all of them, my razors never see anything but tomonagura and clear water on a finish stone after they're set up. Or if used on an ark stone, just the arkansas stone itself. Everything before that is just to set up a razor that's new or that's been set up incorrectly before. After getting hyped up on stones, I asked a guy who has been shaving for 40 years what he's done to keep his razor in shape, and he said horse leather and the occasional touch up on a black arkansas stone that hasn't been lapped in decades ("once in a great while" is what he described for honing. Same razor for all 40 years).

I'm not really making a point here, I know. If i was, it would be that there is no one way. I would say beware of dealers who mark up plain stones 3x and beware of $200 sets of naguras that look brand new. The coarser sets of naguras can be scratchy, as can the fraudulently marked finer ones. Beware also of someone who tells you that you need those naguras and a super-quality finish stone. You need a hard one that's fine and not scratchy in that case. If the naguras are doing the heavy lifting, then chasing after the unicorn stone that is super fine and fast cutting and mellow (which is a high cost proposition) is sort of like wearing belt and suspenders.

Hi all,
Recently I bought Ozuku stone. I tried it after Naniva SS 8k and 10k, on my test razor, was playing both with naguras progression, tomo (which is diamond plate in my case) and clean water only.. But I can not say I enjoyed the result at the end unfortunately. The edge of the razor looked more satin than mirror and shaving was not that clean and smooth. HHT was ok after the strop but the shaving and the satin edge disappointed me. Something inside me is telling me that razor could be sharper after Naniva SS 8k-10k.. I understand that each natural stone is waiting for the correct approach and many-many tries, but maybe someone could share with experience and give me a guidance and advance how would be better to proceed...:aargh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vart1980

Hi all,
Recently I bought Ozuku stone. I tried it after Naniva SS 8k and 10k, on my test razor, was playing both with naguras progression, tomo (which is diamond plate in my case) and clean water only.. But I can not say I enjoyed the result at the end unfortunately. The edge of the razor looked more satin than mirror and shaving was not that clean and smooth. HHT was ok after the strop but the shaving and the satin edge disappointed me. Something inside me is telling me that razor could be sharper after Naniva SS 8k-10k.. I understand that each natural stone is waiting for the correct approach and many-many tries, but maybe someone could share with experience and give me a guidance and advance how would be better to proceed...:aargh:

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So many questions!
Where did you get the Ozuku? Reliable source?, meant for razors?
If you are looking for a Jnat to polish more than synthetic stop looking:)
Hazy is a characteristic of Jnats especially if you used any slurry.
Magnification sure helps when evaluating a stone.
Did you have a great shaving edge from the 10K before you started on the Jnat?
Initial testing I would avoid all stone combinations with it - no naguras.
Try a light slurry with diamond plate and test the edge. Did it improve the edge or degrade it? What happened at the edge?
If it was smooth but not quite keen enough try water only strokes for a bit to polish it up some, try again.
The quality of the stone may not be the best.
Quality magnification will aid you in what is happening at the very edge.

Diamond plates slurry is not always the best!
1) make sure your stone is lapped flat
2) surfacing the stone can help (taking any slurry stone or maybe the 8k synthetic stone to smooth the surface some
3) start with water only laps. Normally I'd suggest tomo slurry but if all you have is a diamond plate maybe this will be better.

Some stones work fine with diamond plate slurry but the above should help take out some possible reasons a stone might not finish well and give you an idea i
Of where you stone finishes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoneandstrop

So many questions!
Where did you get the Ozuku? Reliable source?, meant for razors?
If you are looking for a Jnat to polish more than synthetic stop looking:)
Hazy is a characteristic of Jnats especially if you used any slurry.
Magnification sure helps when evaluating a stone.
Did you have a great shaving edge from the 10K before you started on the Jnat?
Initial testing I would avoid all stone combinations with it - no naguras.
Try a light slurry with diamond plate and test the edge. Did it improve the edge or degrade it? What happened at the edge?
If it was smooth but not quite keen enough try water only strokes for a bit to polish it up some, try again.
The quality of the stone may not be the best.
Quality magnification will aid you in what is happening at the very edge.

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Thank for the feedback
Got Ozuku Ipponsen from here it was positioned as finishing stone for razors.
Well, concerning 10K I would not say I had a great shaving before, since usually I finish with Escher or similar Thuringian.. This is my first experience with JNAT.
When you mean no naguras you mean to avoid botan, tenjyo e t c? Yes, I did try with diamond 1000 k as well. The result is still not the best.. So I tried naguras set. Diamond plate. Water only strokes.. 50 strokes.. 100 strokes.. but can not feel its getting sharp enough.
The face of the stone was flattened with SK11 diamond plate first 400 grit then 1000 grit. Plate is quite ok since I also used for it for the other stones and it still works perfectly. The face of Ozuku after lapping looks like it does not have any foreign inclusions.. I mean stone does not look suspicious. Came with
大突
and
本撰
which are gone after lapped flat
Attachment 348256
Attachment 348257
Attachment 348258

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian1

Diamond plates slurry is not always the best!
1) make sure your stone is lapped flat
2) surfacing the stone can help (taking any slurry stone or maybe the 8k synthetic stone to smooth the surface some
3) start with water only laps. Normally I'd suggest tomo slurry but if all you have is a diamond plate maybe this will be better.

Some stones work fine with diamond plate slurry but the above should help take out some possible reasons a stone might not finish well and give you an idea i
Of where you stone finishes

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Yes, I see. but unfortunately I have no tomo, so can survive only with 1000 k diamond.
I did 100 strokes plus minus on clean water. Can not feel any effect. Still, since I'm new with JNATs it still can be I'm doing something wrong.. Don't know yet what..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vart1980

Thank for the feedback
Got Ozuku Ipponsen from here it was positioned as finishing stone for razors.
Well, concerning 10K I would not say I had a great shaving before, since usually I finish with Escher or similar Thuringian.. This is my first experience with JNAT.
When you mean no naguras you mean to avoid botan, tenjyo e t c? Yes, I did try with diamond 1000 k as well. The result is still not the best.. So I tried naguras set. Diamond plate. Water only strokes.. 50 strokes.. 100 strokes.. but can not feel its getting sharp enough.
The face of the stone was flattened with SK11 diamond plate first 400 grit then 1000 grit. Plate is quite ok since I also used for it for the other stones and it still works perfectly. The face of Ozuku after lapping looks like it does not have any foreign inclusions.. I mean stone does not look suspicious. Came with
大突
and
本撰
which are gone after lapped flat
Attachment 348256
Attachment 348257
Attachment 348258

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What do you normally finish on before Escher?
If you can get a good edge on a Thury from ? You should easily get a decent edge from your Jnat.
I am not of the belief that you have to "unlock" a stone's magical code to get it to work. Its really not complicated.
From a decent 8k or better edge you should be able to use any other finisher either with water or oil alone (whatever medium the stone dictates) or a light slurry.
Very broadly - Razor quality Jnats can seem too keen when used with water alone so using a light slurry will smooth the edge some.
Using Nagura Tenjyou, Mejirou etc creates too many variables. They are for using your base stone when starting at a much lower grit - 1k-3k for example.They are a progression just like synthetics.
When testing a finish stone I always start at 8k synthetic as a baseline. It should improve that edge.

Get a good shaving edge on a razor, then just do 30 water only strokes on the jnat. Might not get the jnat feel, but I'd the edge is too dull to shave with you might not have a razor stone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoneandstrop

What do you normally finish on before Escher?
If you can get a good edge on a Thury from ? You should easily get a decent edge from your Jnat.
I am not of the belief that you have to "unlock" a stone's magical code to get it to work. Its really not complicated.
From a decent 8k or better edge you should be able to use any other finisher either with water or oil alone (whatever medium the stone dictates) or a light slurry.
Very broadly - Razor quality Jnats can seem too keen when used with water alone so using a light slurry will smooth the edge some.
Using Nagura Tenjyou, Mejirou etc creates too many variables. They are for using your base stone when starting at a much lower grit - 1k-3k for example.They are a progression just like synthetics.
When testing a finish stone I always start at 8k synthetic as a baseline. It should improve that edge.

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Usually I go to escher from naniva 8k or 10k.
Perhaps my mistake was that I tried Ozuku starting with coarse Botan and ''killed'' the previous sharpenings. Now I will start the process again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vart1980

Usually I go to escher from naniva 8k or 10k.
Perhaps my mistake was that I tried Ozuku starting with coarse Botan and ''killed'' the previous sharpenings. Now I will start the process again.

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So you went from 8-10k synthetic to about 3k Botan? That would certainly do it.
Avoid variables when testing!

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Originally Posted by stoneandstrop

So you went from 8-10k synthetic to about 3k Botan? That would certainly do it.
Avoid variables when testing!

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Yes, correct. Can you recommend several types of Jnats to look for (so the set of naguras I have also could be in the business)?

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Originally Posted by Vart1980

Yes, correct. Can you recommend several types of Jnats to look for (so the set of naguras I have also could be in the business)?

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The stone you have may be just fine. You have to find out.
Once you decide it is a good finishing stone you can start introducing naguras.
You can start to use the botan right after bevel set, then the next, and the next etc.
As I have said they are for a progression - not for finishing.
For finishing either a tomo or just base stone slurry if the base stone is acceptable.
I have already mentioned how to do this, the rest is up to you.