Thread: New stone Japanese natural, Ozuku Asagi

This is the Ozuku Asagi natural stone I wrote about yesterday. Like the Wakasa, it is a full sized stone at 212 x 78 x 38 and 3 lb 10 oz or 1664 grms. I also bought this one from Takeshi at Aframes tokyo. since those photos I have now lapped it completely, so the identifying stamps are gone, preserved only by the photos. In my post about the Wakasa,I wrote that this Ozuku was supposedly finer than it, (Wakasa), I can report that it took some lapping, with a good 25 minutes of hard work with an Atoma 600, but once it was flat, I had a brief play with it, with some slurry, and it is a very hard and fine finishing natural. Aframestokyo described it as a hone for finishing razors, and from all accounts it seems to be exactly that. I have a razor in mind to put on this stone, and its a TI C 135 steel, so should respond well to this type of natural. I point out too, that this is a double sided stone, although I haven't lapped the other side yet, but doesn't have the toxic skin, is seemingly the same as the primary surface. Its just another option.
I wrote yesterday I was relieved at how good an edge was obtained from the Wakasa. What it has done though is the normal side effect of once again looking for other 'opportunities' as to possible other jnat acquisitions. Has anyone had any good luck with Shobu stones, sometime known as shoubudani. I have left the most lauded stones alone (Nakayama) as they cost a lot, and a lot of that is on reputation, so I figured I'd rely on advice from a trusted source. I'd still be interested in members views on the Shobu mined stones. I know JNS have sold a lot of Shoubu-dani, at fairly cheap prices compared to the Ozuku pictured. So any views are welcomed. When I do go through with a razor on the Ozuku I will show some pictures of the stone, post lapping, and its colour differences when wet to the Wakasa. One video actually of Keith Johnston, showing a number of different types of stones, and then using a finishing Ozuku in the demonstation , was a great help. As far as Im concerned, Nagura progressions, and tomonagura are a bit above my station at the moment, but at some stage I'll look at them.
Bob
I should mention that I sealed the four sides with Shellac, and the same with the Wakasa. ( I left the bottom side alone as it may be lapped and used in its own right)

I have a shoubudani mizu asagi that I like a lot. It is a nice 6"x2" that I use as finishing stone with just water. I flattened mine with sandpaper as I didn't want to risk my plate, went 400,800,1200 to give it somewhat polished feel. I really enjoy the stone but don't have anything to compare it to jnat wise , planning on getting either an ozuku or another shoubudani full size. I enjoy the grey cloudy look some of these stones have.

All of the mines (Nakayama not being an exception) produced stones of various grit size equivalents. If you are looking for a shoubudani finisher you better discuss with a reputable dealer what you are looking for and see whether they can fix you up.

I too have a Shobu asagi that I got from Keith in fact. It's an excellent finisher and if you can find one like it I think you'd be happy. I do have several finishing stones to compare it with - mostly Nakayama and it holds up quite well against them. Problem is that all these stones are very individual and just because I or someone else likes a certain XYZ stone doesn't mean your experience would be the same. The reputable dealer part mentioned above is important I believe.

The allure of the natural stones is strong. People get caught up in the romanticism of them. About 18 months ago I went down the coticule path. I'm not criticising coticules generally, but I had no good fortune in them. I bought two 8 x 3 select grades, and another two bouts. After converting half a dozen razors over to their edge I was disappointed badly. The shave wasn't good at all. I'm not arrogant enough to blame the coticule entirely, but I do know how to hone. I sold them at a loss.
Now I've gone back into naturals. I bought the stones above, the Ozuku then the Wakasa. I've gotten great results from both of them, so now I have that confidence to really contemplate getting a few more. If feel, that the noise about them is justified. I remember when I first got edges from the Gok 20 and raved about how sharp they were. They are still the sharpest edges going round! They are acute though, really clinically sharp, one slip and your cut!.
I noticed with my Ozuku that, yeah they were sharp, they did a nice job. Not a Gok 20 edge, but a toned down version, it felt as though I could have closed my eyes and not cut myself. I guess they are more forgiving. That's not a bad thing. Anybody have any conclusions coming off 20k edges?

No experience with a SG20k, but I can tell you, Shobu stones can be really good. The ones I've had the pleasure to try are very hard, and possess very strong cutting power on slurry (for finishing stones). It means they can give you a range of edges, from very mellow and forgiving as you say, to very sharp and harsh (for my skin at least).

I will agree, jnats are easier to work with than coticules, although I use a few lately... got one vintage La Petite Blanche that will likely stay with me permanently. Owned and sold a La Dressante, Las Petas, La Verte.. tried a La Grise a few times, didn't care for it at all. I also use a La Veinette, but mostly for mid range work when I feel like it. I can't seem to consistently make the transition from slurry to water, so that I get rid of all the deep scratches. This is a non-issue on my jnats, no matter the mine they came from.

That is a very nice Ozuku by the way, it will likely outlive us all!

Originally Posted by bobski

Has anyone had any good luck with Shobu stones, sometime known as shoubudani. I have left the most lauded stones alone (Nakayama) as they cost a lot, and a lot of that is on reputation, so I figured I'd rely on advice from a trusted source. I'd still be interested in members views on the Shobu mined stones. I know JNS have sold a lot of Shoubu-dani, at fairly cheap prices compared to the Ozuku pictured. So any views are welcomed.

I have a Shoubudani Su nashi Suita which is an excellent prepolisher after 5-8k. The Shoubu Asagi I had was an ok finisher but I preferred my Nakayama as a final stone.

From Japan-Tool website ~

Shoubudani:
The origin of Shoubudani quarry is about 800 years ago.

Shoubudani and Nakayama stones were patronized by the Imperial household, for its superior quality used for polishing swords. These stones have never been traded among the commonality between Kamakura period(1185~1333) to mid Muromachi period (1336~1573). It was at the end of Muromachi when these stones appered within the general market, although the better stones were still monopolised by the royalities, the stones with lines and odd shapes were used by the craftsmen and carpenters, and this contributed to the drastic improvement in quality of their works.

If you are familiar with Japanese natural finishing stones, I suppose you have heard of the name Hon-yama. The name Hon-yama is used by any finishing stones nowadays so it mearly means "finishing stone" now, but this name originally was the nick name for Shoubudani mountain. Nakayama is also one of the quarry from this mountian. Honma Tou-zaemon Toki-nari has been appointed as the leader of mining by the famous Shogun of Kamakura period Minamotono Yoritomo in 1190. Thus the mountain was called Honma's mountain = Hon-yama. "Yama" means mountain. Shoubu-dani and Nakayama stones are the only genuine Hon-yama stone.

Ozuku:
One of the treasured Higashi-mono, Oozuku has a very fine grain, usually quite hard, and sometimes too hard and scratchy.

Ozuku had variety of stones quarried, from Shiki Suita at the bottom to Tenjyou Suita at the top. The quarrying has been stopped for decades but the rough stones that has been quarried is being processed and made into products.

Thanks Oz, that's great information, I'll certainly enjoy examining that period of stone/blade development. I recall studying the Meiji period when the first trade began with Japan and the subsequent discoveries by westerners of Japanese iron/steel methods. It's an intoxicating topic, gives an idea of real traditions over much longer periods of times.
Cheers Bob

Originally Posted by bobski

The allure of the natural stones is strong. People get caught up in the romanticism of them. About 18 months ago I went down the coticule path. I'm not criticising coticules generally, but I had no good fortune in them. I bought two 8 x 3 select grades, and another two bouts. After converting half a dozen razors over to their edge I was disappointed badly. The shave wasn't good at all. I'm not arrogant enough to blame the coticule entirely, but I do know how to hone. I sold them at a loss.
Now I've gone back into naturals. I bought the stones above, the Ozuku then the Wakasa. I've gotten great results from both of them, so now I have that confidence to really contemplate getting a few more. If feel, that the noise about them is justified.

I had a similar fight with a coticule. Only bought one, but getting a shaving edge off it was truly a trial. I even started with a blade that was shaving nicely and used the coticule as a finisher only, the stone ruined it. I was surprised to say the least. I did finally get it to work, but it took probably 3 weeks of trial and error. I haven't pulled the stone out since I finally got a good edge off it.

By comparison, I've got a small Shoubudani from JNS that I got a wonderful edge off of the first time I put it to use. Little bit on the keen/nippy side of things, but thats easily fixed by stropping and I'd rank it high on my list of favorite hones.

I hear you Marshal, but let's leave the Coticule guys alone, there must be some Cotis out there you can shave off....lol