Thread: New stone Japanese natural, Ozuku Asagi

Totally feel your pain Marshall, for a long time I felt coticules were for the most part garbage. Then I started focusing in on certain veins and I have to tell you, there are some awesome coticules out there.

I try hard not to knock them. Just because mine was hard to work with doesn't mean they all are. I'll probably buy another down the road, but I'm not just gonna buy another one from Ardennes sight unseen. I'll wait until I can either try it out, or at least get a known good stone that someone is simply looking to trade off in the classified section. That won't be anytime soon though.

I think I may give that and my Jnat a revisit. I've not used either in a while, I'd like to see how they perform following my 12k synthetic. That was also intended as a response to your question about Shoubudanis too. I'm fond of mine. I almost hate to say it, but the little fella gives my translucent Arkies a run for their money.

I was told they can have little black inclusions that can be toxic/detrimental to honing. My stone has black dots, but they're not detrimental. That's something to be mindful of if you pick one up. But overall I'm happy with it.

The best advice that I respect is pointing me to acquiring some nagura stones, from Botan to Mejiro to Tomo. It's all a learn for me at the moment, my only plan was to get a few genuine very hard, fine finishing jnats and go to them after a 10k synthetic edge. That's what I've done do far, but of course I'll advance my thoughts by listening to other more knowledgeable folks.

Originally Posted by bobski

It's all a learn for me at the moment, my only plan was to get a few genuine very hard, fine finishing jnats and go to them after a 10k synthetic edge.

That's all you need. Of course if you wanna play in the mud, ie Nagura, it can be fun.

Above is a photo from my USB 400x cheap scope, it is the final edge on a Dovo 6/8 Stainless blade, from the Ozuku Asagi. I took it from a 10k Naniwa Superstone, then fairly light strokes with slurry made from DN, I let the slurry dry out a fair bit as I lightened things right off to blade weight only. I stropped it up on the Kanayama and had a comfortable shave. (This photo is pre the stropping). It wasn't a spectacular shave, I still have some technique to smooth out, but more than acceptable. The photo is a little blurred but the best I can do on the USB device. Under my loupe it looks better than this fairly high magnification. Any comments or advice is welcome.
Bob

Originally Posted by bobski

Above is a photo from my USB 400x cheap scope, it is the final edge on a Dovo 6/8 Stainless blade, from the Ozuku Asagi. I took it from a 10k Naniwa Superstone, then fairly light strokes with slurry made from DN, I let the slurry dry out a fair bit as I lightened things right off to blade weight only. I stropped it up on the Kanayama and had a comfortable shave. (This photo is pre the stropping). It wasn't a spectacular shave, I still have some technique to smooth out, but more than acceptable. The photo is a little blurred but the best I can do on the USB device. Under my loupe it looks better than this fairly high magnification. Any comments or advice is welcome.
Bob

It's a nicely polished bevel. If you dilute the slurry as you go, even down to plain water for an experiment, the edge may well improve more.

Where you are now, adding 5-6 strokes, at a time, on the gok 20 may get the same results or better.
Test shave between groups of 5 not to push things over the edge, pun intended.

For some JNats I get a much more comfortable edge with tomo slurry. Before you attribute that "not quite there" comfort level to your lack of skill, try some work after that 10k with tomo slurries. The straight water or dilution is worth trying as well, but I never seem to have much luck with that on very hard JNats unless it is very few strokes.

Originally Posted by bobski

The allure of the natural stones is strong. People get caught up in the romanticism of them. About 18 months ago I went down the coticule path. I'm not criticising coticules generally, but I had no good fortune in them. I bought two 8 x 3 select grades, and another two bouts. After converting half a dozen razors over to their edge I was disappointed badly. The shave wasn't good at all. I'm not arrogant enough to blame the coticule entirely, but I do know how to hone. I sold them at a loss.
Now I've gone back into naturals. I bought the stones above, the Ozuku then the Wakasa. I've gotten great results from both of them, so now I have that confidence to really contemplate getting a few more. If feel, that the noise about them is justified. I remember when I first got edges from the Gok 20 and raved about how sharp they were. They are still the sharpest edges going round! They are acute though, really clinically sharp, one slip and your cut!.
I noticed with my Ozuku that, yeah they were sharp, they did a nice job. Not a Gok 20 edge, but a toned down version, it felt as though I could have closed my eyes and not cut myself. I guess they are more forgiving. That's not a bad thing. Anybody have any conclusions coming off 20k edges?

I never liked the gok edge. I don't think it's more refined, I think it's less.

I found the same thing with coticules as you. You can finish with all of the ones suitable for razors, but they are not as reliable as jnats (jnats are generally different in speed, but only lacking fineness if a seller lies to you and says something like "you can finish a razor with this stone with a little work". Good jnats don't require you to do much other than rub a razor on them, and good doesn't mean expensive, it just means fine with no toxic stuff and not too soft).

In my opinion, natural stone edges stay more consistent and are more amenable to linen (good linen, not some modern coarse untreated incantation) and good leather.

I sold my gok a long time ago. It makes a usable edge, but because of the mechanism of delivery, short of what you could do if you just used graded chromium oxide. You will get better with the jnats than you are with the gok. I never use any powders any longer, just natural stones and seldom honing.

Side comment - I'd bet 100 years ago, people using coticules both had better stones on average (the ones that pike imported, etc) for razors and at the same time, often didn't remove the entire edge when honing, because the edge that's been subjected to a couple of hundred trips to good leather and linen will surpass any edge that's freshly honed. You just have to mind the thickness of the edge itself and work the bevel to keep it from getting fat and dull.

I hear you re the Gok 20. I'd never sell mine as I've had several years of great edges from it. That being said, I'm visiting family this weekend and I picked out a razor for my trip. I used Dovo Bismarck that before leaving home, gave 6 laps on the gok20. First shave was close, but a few hours later I ended up with a weeper. Bloody annoying, when I get home I'll put it on my hardest natural I have, the Wakasa,

Originally Posted by bobski

I hear you re the Gok 20. I'd never sell mine as I've had several years of great edges from it. That being said, I'm visiting family this weekend and I picked out a razor for my trip. I used Dovo Bismarck that before leaving home, gave 6 laps on the gok20. First shave was close, but a few hours later I ended up with a weeper. Bloody annoying, when I get home I'll put it on my hardest natural I have, the Wakasa,

You do realise the Gok20 is finer than any Jnat that exists so the edge is therefore sharper. To avoid weepers is literally in your hands ie less pressure & flat angle.

@ DaveW : I can't fault the Gok 20 edges. YMMV.