Naniwa 400 clarification

I'm looking at some Naniwa 400 grit stones and it looks like there are two different kinds. One is a Naniwa Chosera 400 and the other is a Naniwa Super 400. The Super is around $20-$30 less than the other stone on most sites.

For reference I'll post links to the two stones here if it helps.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003V3PLMU...iglink20401-20

https://www.ebay.com/itm/172919896673?rmvSB=true

Aside from the color and thickness differences, do you think they are the same stone or same quality?

Thanks guys.

They are very different. The Chosera [pro] has a mineral type binder and the feel of a stone. The Superstone [sharpening series, or SP] has a resin binder and feels kind of like plastic. Are you sure that you need a 400? A 600 is plenty coarse for rough razor work IMO.

Thanks for the info, that helps.
I'll probably go with a 600 for my razor restoration work. I like having something for removing lots of metal from knives so I don't have to use a diamond stone, and I was thinking of a 400 for knife work so I don't have to use my straight razor hones for that kind of work. My new hobby is restoring old knives. Think a 600 would work for that too?

I have a naniwa SP400 green hone . I find it a little to aggresive for me and what I do. I guess it's for those times when you need to get a big chip out of a blade.

For serious restoration I'm going as low as the Suehiro 320 (it's actually quite finer though, just for reference) with layers of tape on spine.
Or I might use something in the 800 grit.
With or without slurry.
It depends on how bad the bevel is, how much metal you want to remove, and in each case you make the appropriate choice. Unfortunately, it requires experience so that you won't remove too much metal, or end up using a far too fine stone and take a week for a single razor, the right stone for the minimal metal removal until the edge is restored "to perfection".

As for the stones, the chocera-professional I think they are called now, is a faster and longer lasting stone. The ceramic binder has some disadvantages, but performance-wise, most of us would agree that it's better. Hence the higher price.
Not that the classic/cheaper naniwa is a bad choice, both lines from the company have earned our respect.

A 600 could work for knives, of course it would be slower than a lower grit for material removal. I've been using a Crystilon for material removal and finishing on a hard Washita for my knives lately. The Chosera or Pro series will be much better than the Sharpening Series for knives IMO, as they are much harder.

Since your objective is to remove a lot of metal quickly when restoring knives, you might consider using various grits of Silicon Carbide wet/dry sandpaper. Get a piece of glass or granite to use as a backer for the paper.

Since SiC is harder than most other abrasives except Cubic Boron Nitride and diamond, it works quickly. It also has a particle shape that is great for metal removal.

I have the 400 grit Superstone. I have only used it when I had to remove a bad chip in the toe of a vintage razor. For razors, normally 1000 grit is as course as needed.

Sandpaper CAN be used, but it wears down quickly, when new a "1000 grit" piece cuts way too aggressively for 1000 grit and 2' later it gets quite finer and slower' too slow.
If it's the first time trying it on a tool that is of some worth and don't want some extra wear or scratches, I would advice against it.
If not, go for it. Although any coarse (from 400 grit or below, like the stone you mentioned that would perform consistently) sandpaper is way too coarse for honing any delicate tool, and in the long run, too expensive. Let alone that you need a flat surface, there is a chance it will deform depending the brand and you might ending up damaging the edge further instead of improving it.

Do yourself a favor and get the double thick Shapton Glass HR 500. It's considerably faster than either a 320 Shapton Pro or a 600 Chosera (I have both), and it's about the same fineness as the 600 Chosera. It will cut anything and the speed is nice when dealing with chips and geometry issues.

Cheers, Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve56

Do yourself a favor and get the double thick Shapton Glass HR 500. It's considerably faster than either a 320 Shapton Pro or a 600 Chosera (I have both), and it's about the same fineness as the 600 Chosera. It will cut anything and the speed is nice when dealing with chips and geometry issues.

Cheers, Steve

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How long do those stones last?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve56

Do yourself a favor and get the double thick Shapton Glass HR 500. It's considerably faster than either a 320 Shapton Pro or a 600 Chosera (I have both), and it's about the same fineness as the 600 Chosera. It will cut anything and the speed is nice when dealing with chips and geometry issues.

Cheers, Steve

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Did you try the 320 Pro with a heavy slurry ? I found it much faster than the 500 GS & I found the pro's to need less regular flattening than the GS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by salazch

How long do those stones last?

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The double thick will last a good while, how long I can't really say because I haven't worn one out.

Part of the trade off at coarse grits, when you're moving a lot of metal (chips, frowns, etc) is time. You can use a harder stone and take longer or you can use a softer stone that's faster and takes less time. What's best is kind of up to you.

Cheers, Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Did you try the 320 Pro with a heavy slurry ? I found it much faster than the 500 GS & I found the pro's to need less regular flattening than the GS.

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I've used the 320 with slurry from the 'brown biscuit', but still think that the SG 500 is as fast or faster. Part of the reason that it's faster is that with the 320, I really like to use the 600 Chosera or the SG 500 before the 1k stone, so there's an extra stone in the progression before 1k with the 320.

The flattening part I agree with, the SG cut fast because they aren't as hard as Chosera or SP. Most stones used to move a lot of metal need flattening more often than ones that are just removing the last stone's striae, so flattening is just something you have to do more often to move a lot of metal. It's trading stone for time.

Here's a humorous anecdote, when I first started honing straight razors, coming from high end kitchen knives, I wondered why SR folks had all these coarse stones. I used mostly a 5k and up to refresh knife edges and occasionally a 1k for little chips. Well, I found out. If your knife hone needs to cut faster you just bear down and throw the pressure to it. You can't push very hard on a straight because the edge will flex so you need coarser stones, pushing harder on a straight is not an option. Not being able to push very hard on a straight as compared to knives or tools is something every beginning honer (including me) seems to have to learn to the detriment of at least one razor.

Cheers, Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve56

I've used the 320 with slurry from the 'brown biscuit'

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I use a 140 grit Atoma to self slurry the 320 Pro. I find it even faster than the grey 220 GS I used to have.
One thing the GS stones have all over the Pro's is they polish better.
I never found them faster but didn't sharpen many knives. Total noob there. I use my KME :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I use a 140 grit Atoma to self slurry the 320 Pro. I find it even faster than the grey 220 GS I used to have.
One thing the GS stones have all over the Pro's is they polish better.
I never found them faster but didn't sharpen many knives. Total noob there. I use my KME :)

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We're all noobs Oz, we just like to pretend we're not.

Cheers, Steve