Strop and paste vs. hone

The highest grit I've done is a 16k Naniwa. So far, happy. But if I wanted something a little smoother....

What's the difference between a strop with paste and a high grit stone or glass, such as Shapton 30k? From what I can tell, the pastes get to about 30k, perhaps higher.

Has anyone compared the strop and paste to a Shapton? What's the difference? If there is a thread already, appreciate a link.

Just curious.

Similarly...at what point do you get to the law of diminishing returns?
4k to 8k is a huge difference. 8k to 12k is also big. From 12k to 16k is less of a jump, although it's still 4k finer. 20k would be another 4k higher, and 30k even higher. Do you notice the difference with a shave?

You can chase the unicorn edge, but you can go into the 100 edge with some pastes. But it really ultimately rest with you and your ability’s. I get a super smooth edge from a 12k Naniwa, you might not get it as smooth with a 20k. Never seen a 16k naniwa, but if your not getting a smooth irritation free shave then check yourself, if new to honing RAZORS it’s common

I've been honing for a few years, and even met with a mentor a few years ago in person to learn some tips. While I may not be perfect, I don't think honing is a shortcoming. I could probably strop some more.

Shaving is good and comfortable. One spot on my neck gets razor burn when the rest of my face is fine. It grows sideways and I can't, due to curves, shave sideways there. Wondering if a sharper edge may make a difference, but sharper would be a subtle thing I believe, after Naniwa 12k. Wondering if strop with paste or a higher grit stone or glass would make a difference, but I don't want to spend lots of $$ without asking about others' experience.

Your unicorn edge comment is similar to my law of diminishing returns, I guess. So, the path may not be worth it...just curious what guys think.

Acquiring a lot of hones,especially high grit ones, can be a very expensive disorder. Chromium Oxide is relatively inexpensive and can get you to 30k.

If your bevel is set correctly and your progression has systematically removed lower grit stria, you should be able to get a comfortable shave from an 8K stone, a very good shave from a 12K or other similar finishing stone and a superior shave using a pasted strop.

I have a 16K Shapton glass that I seldom use because I get really good edges FOR ME using a BBW/coticule => Oozuku or Vermio => CrOx on a paddle strop.

Poor stropping technique or stropping on a poor strop can undo good honing, so there is that to consider as well.

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Acquiring a lot of hones,especially high grit ones, can be a very expensive disorder. Chromium Oxide is relatively inexpensive and can get you to 30k.

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Am I to understand that a Shapton 30k glass and Chromium Oxide are basically the same thing?

If yes, this answers my original question. And since CO is cheaper, that's the reason to do it.

thanks

Could be that if you are only getting razor burn consistently in one trouble spot your angle on the blade could be slightly off and/or you are trying too hard there and using to much pressure.

Bob

I have found the Solingen red and black crayon pastes used in sequence on leather loom or paddle strops to work quite well off a coticule or synths in the 6k-8k range.

Maybe not of the Shapton 16k specifically but yes lots of threads on paste and film. Paste can go as high as 0.005um/ 3.2 million grit and film .03um/60grit film. As a point of reference, Chromium Oxide that has been used for hundreds of years is .50um 30,000 grit.

There are many, many posts on honing on film and stropping on paste.

Both work exceptionally well, but there are limits, (the law of diminishing returns?) but perhaps not what you think.

It depends on your beard and skin type, the quality of your honing and most importantly the quality of the steel.

You can make an edge so keen that it will exfoliate skin painlessly, but a few seconds later your skin will weep blood, (weepers). Film and paste can both easily create those edges.

Paste readily available to 0,10um/ 160,000 grit can polish an edge stria free and it will shave well, but the edge will not last and begin to microchip, the steel cannot handle the edge. Remember the actual cutting edge of any razor cannot be seen without the aid of magnification of about 1,000 power.

If you want to experiment with paste, start with pure Chromium Oxide, it will give a smooth keen polished edge, a stick of pure Chrome Oxide is about $10 from any good razor supplier and a lifetime supply. Where as a .50um CBN paste can make a keener, harsher edge, same grit size, different shape grit. 12k and Chrome Oxide is a very good edge for most, but there may be even more room for improvement.

Honing a straight razor is not just about sharpness, sharp is easy, sharp, and comfortable is the trick and not so…easy. A straight razor edge can be tailored for your skin, beard, and razor, that is one of the benefits, a tailored edge. Necks are almost universally a problem area for the same reasons you have issues. A keen properly honed edge can help, sharper is not always the answer.

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Originally Posted by MarkC

4k to 8k is a huge difference. 8k to 12k is also big. From 12k to 16k is less of a jump, although it's still 4k finer. 20k would be another 4k higher, and 30k even higher. Do you notice the difference with a shave?

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A look at the micron sizes of the grits that you mention may be enlightening. A 4k jump in grit means different things at different levels of grit. A 20k Gok and a 30k Shapton are listed at having approximately the same grit size. Going from 100k grit to 104k grit would be totally meaningless. Also the same grit in a different binder or applied to a strop is going to cut differently.

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Originally Posted by MarkC

The highest grit I've done is a 16k Naniwa. So far, happy. But if I wanted something a little smoother....

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Higher grit =/= smoother.
Especially when comparing high grit synthetics to naturals; you can't make those comparisons.

For finishing I prefer a natural finishing stone over a synthetic. But there are so many, both can do a very good job.
Crox is a good and easy solution for not needing a high grit synthetic and for smoothing things out.

It's really finding what you prefer and that's by trying it all.

But what matters most is skin feel for me and only one natural does it for me and that's a Blue Belgian whetstone, but it's not for everyone. My Escher and Coticules don't do what a BBW does for me, a 20K synthetic is a really fantastic finisher in all honesty as well. But a BBW gives something extra the others don't of keenness and skin friendliness (not even the Coticules do it for me). But now we are splitting hairs and are in a highly subjective and personal territory.

You should get be able to get good shaves off of a finishing synthetic stone and smooth it out with some crox if you'd like. I don't think I'd bother with other stones above the 10K synthetic range if I were to do it over again, but I would use some crox. The 20K is awesome without pastes, but pricey, and I'm not sure if it beats a 10K + crox.

Naturals are a whole other thing and these I use without any pastes afterwards, otherwise I feel you're just not using the right natural for you.

I will say your technique will do almost as much as your edge does.

There is so often a trade off. The higher the grit you hone to, the more fragile your edge becomes, and does not last as long. I went quite some time with a Norton 8K edge. Also not all of the hones feel the same on my skin. I have a 13K Sigma II that is so uncomfortable that I never use it. I try to stay 12K or less and work more at getting each grit perfectly refined before moving up. We all however are looking for our own experience. As far as paste experience goes, I got a lovely shave from pure cerium oxide. Chromium oxide, CBN spays, lapping film not so much.

I have experimented for about 5 years. Here’s what I have found.

I had mentor Euclid440 show me how to hone about 5 years ago. Thanks, dude! I think I’m pretty good at honing. I can pretty much shave right off the 8k stone. Stropping helps a lot. Can I shave off the 8k? Yes, pretty much. About 95% of my face takes it just fine. But…it’s the small 5% of my neck that rebels with razor burn.

This is my neck, so I can pretty much shave up or down. I can also go up or down with slight angles. But I cannot shave sideways because…it’s my neck. I have experimented with pressure, angle, pre-shave oils and gels, different shaving creams. Post shave, I use a moist alum block and George Trumper’s skin food. The result is, that 5% always has slight red razor burn. It’s not terrible, but even that slight bothers me a little. I’d like to eliminate it if I can.

After about 2 years of this, I invested in a Naniwa 12k as a finishing stone. This was 3 years ago. Does that make a difference? YES! It’s a smoother shave. 95% of my face doesn't care either way. I do notice subtle differences that I can’t really put into words. But that 5% of my neck really notices the difference between 8k or 12k. Did the razor burn go away? No, not completely. But it is much reduced. Stropping more certainly helps.

I have determined that 5% of my neck is like a bell weather alarm. If the red razor burn is worse, it’s time for a 12k touch up with some stropping. The rest of my face is fine, but if that 5% flares up, do a 12k touch up. I am wondering if paste stropping may improve that, maybe completely take away the burn on the small 5% as well.

I have determined after 5 years that my shaving technique, the pre-shave ritual, is all OK. The variable I have not played with is honing/stropping higher than 12k. Which most guys don’t need, but many desire. For many different reasons.

I have some white TI paste (anyone know the micron/grit on that?) I got from AOS with my only new SR purchase, with an AOS strop. I hate that AOS strop, it is so narrow. I use the paste I have on that, but the paste is clumpy. After a 12k touch up, I can tell a difference if I do a naked strop or a pasted strop followed by a naked strop. It is subtle, but I can tell the difference. I have a SRD 3” wide leather strop that I love and that will always be paste free naked.

My options to go above 12k are a Shapton 30k glass ($$$$) or playing with paste ($). Other guys seem to suggest that those two things are similar, which was the point of my post. With the affordable option of paste, the biggest variable seems to be how pure the paste is, and the media you use for the paste. Since you can’t really remove the paste from a leather strop, some guys use more than one paste with more than one leather strop, keeping one bare for regular stropping, naked no paste. With paste, you can also use balsa wood, newspaper, or fabric strops.

So, I’ll play with paste on balsa, and maybe newspaper. I may skip the AOS pasted strop and play with other variables only. If it makes no difference, I may wait longer and try the 30k glass. But if it makes a difference, then I’ll play around with media.

I don’t believe I’ve ever gotten to the too sharp discomfort. I believe the minor razor burn, only on the 5% of my neck, is the not sharp enough discomfort. So, I’ll try paste, and media other than that crappy little AOS strop.

Or, as hinted, it may be less of a sharpness, but more of a keenness or smoothness subtlety. OK, whatever. I’m willing to experiment a bit.

Again, most of my face is fine. It’s that 5% that gets the razor burn. I believe that 5% is the most sensitive part that I shave, so I’m trying to satisfy the ‟elite” part of my face, while all the rest is OK. I’ve played with all the variables, and the sharper the blade the better. Now it’s time to go beyond that Naniwa 12k and see if paste makes it better with a slightly smoother shave, and take that minor razor burn away.

Before I got here I shaved off an 8K stone and a pasted paddle strop. Every 5 or 10 shaves that 5% neck would protest and I would do a few laps on the pasted strop and that was it. Probably got 50 shaves or so on that razor before I went crazy and joined yall here.

What you're describing is pretty much what synthetics just seem to do to my face.
They cannot, in any way, replace a natural finishing stone.

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Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

But what matters most is skin feel for me and only one natural does it for me and that's a Blue Belgian whetstone, but it's not for everyone. My Escher and Coticules don't do what a BBW does for me, a 20K synthetic is a really fantastic finisher in all honesty as well. But a BBW gives something extra the others don't of keenness and skin friendliness (not even the Coticules do it for me). But now we are splitting hairs and are in a highly subjective and personal territory.

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Not the first one who talks in such a way about BBW... and this thing intrigues me.

Do you have a vintage or an actual one? How do you use it as a finisher? Thanks!

Yes, that seems to throw a new variable into the mix. BBW or a coticule is a possibility as well.

But, as previously stated, the only way to know is to try all variables.

Hm.

Paste is still definitely cheaper than a new stone, whether that is a 30k glass or a natural. I'll try that first.

But must admit the elusive Escher or a BBW is a curiosity...

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Originally Posted by Skorpio58

Not the first one who talks in such a way about BBW... and this thing intrigues me.

Do you have a vintage or an actual one? How do you use it as a finisher? Thanks!

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I have many, vintage, new, they all do the same job for me with small nuances. They all deliver.

I mostly use natural combos and I use them dry. I've tried everything from slurry to water to oil and lather. [The edge are different with these different methods, dry just delivers the best edges for me, otherwise they're just not as keen.]
It's all personal preference, but dry honing, as was rarely suggested at the time, works wonders for my edge, ymmv.
After you use them dry for a while, they only become better. The skin feel for me is unrivaled. Not everyone likes 'em and I'm not saying they're gonna work for you; but for me it ended my search for stones. (I have a La Veinette, a La Grise, La Nouvelle Veine, La Petite Blanche, etc. they all work, no need to chase an expensive vein, all my vintage ones work just as well)

I'm not telling you to try a BBW, but going to naturals might be an interesting idea.
Especially if after years of honing and shaving you still feel you're missing out on something.
Some friends might try finishing some razors on different naturals for you, might be a cost efficient way to see what you like and dislike.

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Originally Posted by MarkC

Paste is still definitely cheaper than a new stone

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That is indeed a good idea, natural stones is a slippery slope. It can take a lot of time and many stones before you find what really suits you well.

The 30k Shapton is a waste on many razors as they can't hold that edge, I rarely use it unless I am honing a NY made usually Little Valley brand
A very select few Solingen razors usually made during the Golden Era can take and hold a Shapton 30k

The Gokyu 20k is a much more forgiving hone at about the same price the actual micron difference is insignificant

No, a strop and a hone are two different approaches, just because they might be the same Grit size or close, doesn't mean they produce the same edge
There are also extreme differences between quality with pastes too, all .50~ CrOx is NOT made the same let alone when you go off into other types

Want more comfort, then look at using slurry on a natural, or at least try it on your 12k Naniwa there is serious "Magic in the Mud" for gaining comfort

JMO and I am sticking to it :p

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Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

I'm not telling you to try a BBW, but going to naturals might be an interesting idea.
Especially if after years of honing and shaving you still feel you're missing out on something.
Some friends might try finishing some razors on different naturals for you, might be a cost efficient way to see what you like and dislike.

That is indeed a good idea, natural stones is a slippery slope. It can take a lot of time and many stones before you find what really suits you well.

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Thanks for the answer (and for a new input: "dry Honing"... wht's that? :thinking: :) ) I'll have to check it with a modern (not expensive) BBW .

I'm already on naturals, maybe because here in Italy, we're not much used to finish on Synth and/or paste. So I followed the mainstream and approached honing using mostly naturals.

Actually I'm on Jnats and experimenting with Naguras & Tomos just for the joy of learning and see if I can do better... but I'm already quite satisfied with the results of "simple" stones finishing...

Just published in another thread a microscope image of a blade I honed six months ago (my 3rd or 4th honed razor) with an unknown italian stone... And it shaved well... :)

For what it's worth. I have a trouble spot, also as I think many if not most do. It is just under my jawbone near my chin. I got a scar there from a cycling accident and it is very hard to get shaved clean without a cut or rash...with a straight. I can get it with a DE much easier. I don't know if you've tried it with a DE or SE but if you can get it close without rash that way then maybe the problem is just ergonomic. One big challenge shaving yourself with a straight I suspect we all face to some extent is those areas where your hand just won't quite turn that way. It did seem to help me if the edge was better or better put, a marginal edge made it worse. For my spot though I finally found that if I hold the blade upside-down, toe pointing toward my feet and shave toward my chin I can get it with a blade that is even at the near touch up time point.
Maybe this doesn't apply in your case but I shaved with a straight for years and years before I was able to do that comfortably without cutting the crap out of myself.
As has been said stones are a hole in the internet that you throw your money into or can be. They are definitely not the same but I think I might chase pastes first if there is uncertainty. For me the magic combination is arks...so far. I am not quite ready to dive down the jnat rabbit hole, or at least my wallet is not. Not that I have ventured down every trail but I have a trans slip stone that makes edges at the end of an ark progression so smooth and comfortable that I feel no need to look further...this week at least.

Concerning the subjectivity with naturals, I have never enjoyed shaving with a Coticule edge, while everyone on other forums seemed to love them. [Same with most other finishing stones in all honesty, they never hit that sweet spot for me]

I even visited some friends over in Belgium that honed up razors for me in person on their Coticules; but it never worked for me, and they're probably some of the most knowledgeable and experienced Coticule honers I know.

And tbh I found the whole slurry thing a huge PITA for me personally. I despised it. Using the Coti and BBW dry, they proved much more efficient while leaving a super smooth edge. I'll never understand using slurry on the coti/bbw. My La Petite Blanche is not noticeably faster on thick slurry than it is dry ... au contraire, using slurry never gets my coti or bbw edges as keen.

Naniwa 12K, Suehiro 20K, Coti, Escher, Green Puma paste, etc. All did a good job providing for good shaves, but never felt like "it" for me. I also never enjoyed shaving with a DE razor / blade.

So there's that. You can't go by what others like.

I find using slurry on a coticule useful when I have to build or rebuild a bevel, but when I am only interested in refreshing an already pretty good edge, I generally avoid slurry and use a water/glycerin mix.

I haven’t tried either the BBW or coti dry, but the next time I have to refresh an edge I will - just to see how it works.

When I’m done with the BBW/coti, I move to a finisher (Vermio or OOzuku, depending on what is closest at hand) and chromium oxide on a paddle strop.

I haven’t touched my 1k Shapton or my 4k/8k Norton in quite a while. They were useful when I was working on blades that had to be restored and for which the bevel needed significant resetting.

I only use my 1K diamond plate when sharpening knives or when I have to hone out a major chip in a razor or to lap one of my water stones.

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Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

...I also never enjoyed shaving with a DE razor / blade.

So there's that. You can't go by what others like.

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Yeah, me either. The point was more that there are two, I believe, separate issues which are being conflated here. I'm not saying to shave with a DE or SE other than to see if with one of those the OP can get that spot shaved clean without rash. If so, chasing a sharper edge is not likely to help anything. I sort of tried the same thing and I did find that a keener/sharper edge did seem to help a little but could even make it worse because it was not going to completely get that spot shaved clean and I was doing more to abbrade my face than anything else. The only thing that would get that spot was figuring out a way to turn the razor in a direction that would get the hair and do it without cutting the crap out of myself. It took a lot of practice but I did actually finally do it and no amount of resharpening or buying more stones or paste was going to fix that. YMMV

I do not care for any abrasive whatsoever on a regular hanging leather strop. My leather strops never get paste.

The only way I have ever found to get the edge that I like is to finish with a progression of lapped and backed balsa strops with a SMALL amount of diamond paste rubbed into the balsa, and then wiped clean so that there is NO paste coating on the surface. The grits are .5u, .25u, and .1u. The .5u gives a sharp but sometimes uncomfortable edge. The .25u, sharper and definitely not a comfortable shave. The .1u gives me a very smooth and comfortable shave. .1u is about 200k grit, FWIW and for those who insist on assigning a grit rating. There is more to it than just the tools and material, of course.

The balsa does not replace normal stropping on leather. Stropping on hanging leather is for me, essential, before shaving. After shaving I go 50 very light laps on the .1u diamond balsa. The edge stays very sharp indefinitely and I never have to return to stone or film, ever.

More in depth info about this on my website. Anyway this is one way of using paste that does actually work and will definitely give a sharp and smooth edge. The same cannot be said about using the same pastes on a leather paddle. As far as other pastes besides diamond, I have tried the more common green and red (Chromium Oxide and Iron Oxide) pastes and coaxing the same level of edge quality out of them is all but impossible. CBN is reported to behave similarly to diamond but I have not tried it, and won't until someone convinces me that it works better than diamond.

I have shaved off a lot of different edges but none match the edge that the diamond/balsa progression gives me. I have honed on coticule and Jnat and Arkies but I prefer synthetics or lapping film to 12k/1u as a base edge for improving with the balsa. I use a lot of different brands for repair and bevel setting but my progression from the bevel is always film or Naniwa Superstones, mainly because that is what I have and I am not about to spend money for Shaptons when the Nannies and the lapping film both work just fine. That's not to say that maybe they aren't better, only that I can't justify buying them. By hearsay only, I don't think that any synthetic stone finer than 12k will be very pleasing to me, nor do I care fur sub-micron lapping film edges. The half micron diamond on balsa is quite an easy jump from 12k Naniwa or 1u film.

Everyone likes what they like and there is a ton of subjectivity in razor edge treatment preference. And it is very hard to dislike an edge that is created or maintained by many many hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of stones when you have already spent for and bought them. There is also a lot of what I call "faith based honing" where you simply "know" that the edge will please, and so it does. And honestly, a really really good Jnat or Arkie edge is pretty darn good, but I do like my diamond paste edge best.

Paste.

Well, there is more experimentation to be done, for sure, but I am impressed.

Last week did a 12k touchup on 6 razors. Today I tried balsa with some .5 green paste on the same razor I used yesterday. After the paste, I did 75 laps on a naked leather strop. Shaved.

I must say, it is a MUCH smoother shave! I was hoping it would be like a hot knife through butter...and I have to say it's pretty close! The razor burn on that 5% area of my neck? MUCH reduced...and some redness may be from yesterday's shave. My next test is to not shave for a couple of days, let all redness disappear, then shave with the same paste stropped razor again, for comparison.

Likely had more paste than I needed. With a 30x loupe, I could see some definite smoothness on the edge compared to coming off the 12k. Technique and practice may improve things, but even with my rather rudimentary test, I believe the paste passed the test. I am turning into a believer.

Paste. So far, so good.

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Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

I do not care for any abrasive whatsoever on a regular hanging leather strop.

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Me neither, I've never put paste on leather, always on the component part. I also like to keep my leathers clean.

I only use paste on leather for my woodworking tools, but never for razors.

Mark, where did the paste come from and is it pure Chrome Oxide?

You might try pasting a piece of cardboard, inside of a cereal box. Balsa has some silica naturally in it and many complain of harshness coming off balsa. Several years ago when balsa was all the rage, it was a common complaint, especially if use with pressure.

Cardboard is much smoother and makes a great test substrate for paste. Avoid the temptation to use pressure on the strop.

Use pure Chrome Oxide for best results. 75-100 laps on pure Chrome Oxide should remove any visible stria from the edge and about half-way down the bevel, Run a Q Tip along the edge lightly, you will feel the slightest snag if you have a chip, joint the edge and reset it 10-20 X laps on the 12k.

Another thing you can do is perfect your 12k edge. The slightest swarf on the 12k can damage the edge, and I believe a lot of folks over hone on the 12k. The 12k is an aggressive stone but can be a good polisher. Years ago, I did a post on chip removal with a 12k, it is that aggressive. (12K Chip Removal/Bevel Setting).

When you have a good stria pattern on the 12k and a straight edge, where you would normally stop, joint the edge, strop 20-30 laps on linen, lap the 12k clean and hone 10-20 laps under running water. Strop 10-20 laps on linen and 10-20 on leather. Test shave to see if the edge improves.

You can also take it one step further, add an extra layer of tape, joint the edge, strop on linen and do 3-5 light finish laps under running water. Strop and shave. Then strop on pure Chrome Oxide, linen, leather and shave.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Mark, where did the paste come from and is it pure Chrome Oxide?

You might try pasting a piece of cardboard, inside of a cereal box. Balsa has some silica naturally in it and many complain of harshness coming off balsa. Several years ago when balsa was all the rage, it was a common complaint, especially if use with pressure.

Cardboard is much smoother and makes a great test substrate for paste. Avoid the temptation to use pressure on the strop.

Use pure Chrome Oxide for best results. 75-100 laps on pure Chrome Oxide should remove any visible stria from the edge and about half-way down the bevel, Run a Q Tip along the edge lightly, you will feel the slightest snag if you have a chip, joint the edge and reset it 10-20 X laps on the 12k.

Another thing you can do is perfect your 12k edge. The slightest swarf on the 12k can damage the edge, and I believe a lot of folks over hone on the 12k. The 12k is an aggressive stone but can be a good polisher. Years ago, I did a post on chip removal with a 12k, it is that aggressive. (12K Chip Removal/Bevel Setting).

When you have a good stria pattern on the 12k and a straight edge, where you would normally stop, joint the edge, strop 20-30 laps on linen, lap the 12k clean and hone 10-20 laps under running water. Strop 10-20 laps on linen and 10-20 on leather. Test shave to see if the edge improves.

You can also take it one step further, add an extra layer of tape, joint the edge, strop on linen and do 3-5 light finish laps under running water. Strop and shave. Then strop on pure Chrome Oxide, linen, leather and shave.

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Much truth there. Balsa does NOT work well with pressure, for several reasons. To get fullest benefit, you must first of all go in with a good edge to start with, second use very very light pressure, and third, use no thicker than 1/4" (to reduce unequal swelling/shrinking) and back it with a good rigid and lightweight substrate that makes it easy to hold in hand but prevents flexing, and third, lap it smooth and flat before applying paste, and fourth, apply only a very small amount, and wipe the surface clean so that there is no coating. Without doing these things, balsa will not impress.

CrOx and cardboard are actually not a bad pairing. I suspect following up with red paste on another piece of cardboard might give a fairly good result. However, I would have to ask, not that it matters much, how much silica is in paper or cardboard, vs wood. I think it is not so much a question of actual silica content, as how it is presented to the edge being honed.

At one time I was experimenting with final stropping on a very thin unsupported balsa strip, used like a hanging strop. I could come off the .1u pasted balsa and see a very highly polished bevel and a very smooth and even edge under microscope. One day I looked at my bevel after stropping on the unpasted balsa and stria were quite abundant. I had assumed that I had somehow contaminated the unpasted strop, but I tried again and similar result. I tried lapping a new strip as best I could, then rubbing with a little saddle soap and then hand rubbing, and a final wipe-down with a tshirt. Results were much better. Still, not quite as good as ordinary leather stropping so I stopped trying to use unpasted balsa as a regular strop. But it definitely shows the difference between treated and untreated balsa. I was going from balsa loaded with abrasive to clean balsa and reducing bevel polish. And the difference was mostly due to the lapping and rubbing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zySumBYzjOU

Ignore the anti-metric rant. I had just spent some time on the boat turning normal SAE wrenches on the diesel, and then working on something else that used metric fasteners and I had to come back to the house and dig out a metric tool collection from the trunk of the old Hyundai to take back to the boat, and was really P.O.ed at the metric world. I'm sure metric has its place. That place just isn't America and it certainly isn't my boat.

I don't know how pure it is. Several razor places are sold out of it right now, including Fendrihan.
I bought mine on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079S3G7WY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&p ldnSite=1

I used green, not the white. The green is supposedly .5u. Honestly, I doubt its purity, but as a nice cheap test it worked out OK. The balsa I used was 1/16" thick, and is 12"x4" with several pieces in a package. Placed on a solid table for stropping.

I also bought Herold Solingen Stagenpaste Solid Double Paste for Razor Strops, red and black paste, but it has not arrived yet. This appears to be a foil-wrapped bar instead of a cream in a jar.

If you have a better supplier in mind, I'd love to know where to buy.

I used balsa as my cheap test. So far, results are good! Euclid, I believe one of your posts from a long time ago showed your fabric strops, and I like your setup. Some D-rings are easy to buy, and if you could let me know where you bought the fabric, I'd appreciate it. If you need to send a PM that's fine.

Based on my paste test, and as basic and rudimentary as it admittedly was, I'd like more info on where to buy pure Chrome Oxide and fabric for strops.

My paste test was good. If higher quality or more pure paste is available, and I apply to a better medium like cloth strops, the results may be even better. I'm willing to jump in. Love some details as mentioned above.

Try Classic Edge:

https://classicedge.ca/products/p-15...2dd9bfba&_ss=r

Thanks. Is that the balsa you use with paste? Their balsa board is in the video...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkC

Thanks. Is that the balsa you use with paste? Their balsa board is in the video...

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I have a paddle strop they sold years ago with balsa on one side and hard felt on the other - about 2” wide. I use chromium oxide on the balsa side and diamond spray on the felt.

I seldom use the felt side anymore. My normal progression is coticule => Vermio or Oozuko => chromium oxide => 10 turns on linen => 20 turns on leather. I hit the chromium oxide before stropping if I feel the edge is starting to diminish.

I would be suspect. “The white compound is aluminum oxide based, with a grade of 9000 grit. The green paste is chromium oxide based, and is rated at .5 micron, which is the equivalent of approximately 50,000 grit.”

“Chromium Oxide based” If it were pure Chrome Oxide they would say so. And they market it as knife polishing compound. Most polishing compounds contain Aluminum Oxide to cut quicker.

You can buy pure Chrome Oxide from Kremers Pigments No #44200.12100.136 $10, for 100 grams. About 3.5 oz. more than you will ever need.

I made strops from Pellon a fabric backing material, and from Sail Cloth, a polyester canvas. You can buy both from any fabric store pelon is about $5 per yard and Sailcloth about $10. Both work with Chrome Oxide.

Pellon is like Tyvek house wrap but comes in different thickness and not as shiny, it holds paste well.] Make sure not to get the glue backed one. Comes in 36 - 45 inch width, so a yard will make a bunch of strops.

I use Pellon with CBN and Diamond. Buy the mid weight about the thickness of cardstock.


Here is the link.
(shop.kremerpigments.com)

Tristant udlow posted: I mostly use natural combos and I use them dry. I've tried everything from slurry to water to oil and lather. [The edge are different with these different methods, dry just delivers the best edges for me, otherwise they're just not as keen.]
It's all personal preference, but dry honing, as was rarely suggested at the time, works wonders for my edge, ymmv.
After you use them dry for a while, they only become better. The skin feel for me is unrivaled. Not everyone likes 'em and I'm not saying they're gonna work for you; but for me it ended my search for stones. (I have a La Veinette, a La Grise, La Nouvelle Veine, La Petite Blanche, etc. they all work, no need to chase an expensive vein, all my vintage ones work just as well)

ME;
Been struggling for several days with an old, German 6/8 Kratz that used to be one of my best shavers.
Even though still full width and no hone wear - every natural - including a BBW wet with slurry - and synthetic I have just gave a bunch of microchips.
Tried: dry BBW, followed by dry Swaty, crox, horsehide strop
Now she loves me again.

Thank you for a really get tip.