Anybody bought a finisher from 330mate on eBay? Any suggestions on how to pick one that would make a decent finisher? I know he is cutting up old stones...... Anybody have experience with him? Suggestions?
Barry
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Anybody bought a finisher from 330mate on eBay? Any suggestions on how to pick one that would make a decent finisher? I know he is cutting up old stones...... Anybody have experience with him? Suggestions?
Barry
I bought one too - he is very helpful and luckily I got a good stone - takes a bit of getting used to and a lot more laps than I bargained for, but a great stone at a bargain price nevertheless.
Regards,
Neil
I know you get what you pay for.... Just don't want to waste money on junk. He descriptions all look similar to me. Just wanted to know what to ask for.
Barry
when you buy from his eBay auction, you might get lucky or not. I think he knows what stone is good and what is average. The good stones are on his website, and even then you have to know what you are looking for.
If you are interested pm me I will tell you other vendors that for sure sell quality stones.
I agree with what has been said. I have 5 of his stones
First, I bought one of his 70+ Nakayama razor stones. It cuts well and leaves a fine finish. I think he has his eBay stones boxed and categorized and he just sends out a box.
I also have one of his Ebay Aotos. I have heard more variability in these. I was luck her and got a decent Aoto. Some haven't been as good as mine.
I also have an #100 Ohira Tomae. The size is a little small for me. It is a soft stone and finer than the Aoto. It is good to follow the Aoto and you can shave off it.
The other 2 stones were from his website. They are both pretty good sized stones. 1 is a Najishi Kiita and the other a Kurasu Kiita. I am still evaluating them. I am pleased so far.
I would say that there is a certain amount of taking a chance on his Ebay stones. His better stones are on his site, but it helps a lot to know what you are looking for.
I understand how he works. I am okay with that. I have looked on his site but can't get around. My translator isn't working and I can't see what stones he has. I have been emailing him to see if he will help. I may just give up and buy from another source. From what I gather, he may just be the wholesaler that others buy from and they buy in bulk and sort them. You get what you pay for.:rant:
I think- if you can talk to him well enough( not always easy) one of his Shinden Suita make a good finish hone esp on vintage English swedish steel razors. Seems like the better ones go for 125usd or therbouts.
Really though it depends on where you're at. Is it likely you will want to have more pieces to compare and contrast? Buying from 330 can leave you wanting, but gets you some variety and base line to say _whoa that one there; knows what I like!. Or you can spend more with a prenuptial agreement assured it'll be all you really ever need.
You pays yo money, yo takes yo chances...........
Lynn
I gots one on the way, we will see what happens...:confused:
I've been in contact with 330mate about some stones, and the communication issues are just insurmountable for me at this point. I can't seem to even establish the most basic level of communication, it seems to get worse with each email exchange. Really frustrating.
I wish I were fluent in Japanese, or had a go-between fluent in Japanese. Between my lack of Japanese language skills and the obscurity of the characteristics and variability of the Japanese natural stones themselves, I've given up. I won't spend money on a complete crap shoot. At least when I deal with Old School, I understand exactly what I'm paying for. I don't doubt 330mate, I just can't understand one sentence he writes. Not one. :confused:
+1 on dealing with Old School.
Lynn
you need to know what to ask him for.
He has a system of rating a stone called HGAL(hardness, grit, abrasive ability, feedback)
so you are looking for stones that are Nakayama and 5+/3+++ (+)/3+++(+)/3+++(+)
the more pluses after each characteristic the better the stone and the higher the price.
you can ask him to hand select one- you will pay a slight premium but its still the cheapest jnat out there. I am happy with mine (10x3 nakayama similar to his 70+ ones on ebay), it finishes around escher quality. And its ranking is 5+/3++++/3++++/3+++ for what its worth. It is very hard (was a bitch to lap, I even left parts a little concave cus it doesn't hurt at the edges), the grit is very fine, for such a fine grit it is quite abrasive, and it feels very very smooth when honing with water. So in my very limited experience, his rankings are on. Maybe a I got lucky, maybe he really is the real deal.
On this topic- I had a back and forth of about oh, 30? emails with him. After a while you can decipher it. There is quite a language barrier and somewhat of a cultural barrier. If you want to deal with him (other than a dice roll on ebay) just be patient and above all else respectful.
I could see why others don't want to deal with him. He also can be moody- my first stone he shipped directly to me, then I tried buying another and he picked out a few and I chose one and one day he just refused to sell it to me. I have no idea why not. Apparently he was trying to get a partnership with SRD, but I'm willing to bet that feel through due to his peculiar business practices.
I've been holding off for a while, but I figured I'd throw in my two cents.
Regardless of any language or cultural barriers between buyer and seller, I think that it is the job of the buyer to do product research. This in and of itself is difficult when it comes to Japanese hones because there is often a language barrier there as well. When I decided that I wanted to get a hone from 330mate, I knew it would be a bit of a gamble for a number of reasons. I didn't have him hand pick one and I don't know much about Japanese hones. I took that into account, along with the price, the dangers of shipping, and the wait time.
When my hone arrived, I took the time to play with her to see what she could do. I honed with slurry, I honed without slurry. I used the hone at various points in my standard progression. I did a lot of laps, I did few laps. I did everything I could think of to see what I could get out of her. What I found was that, while the hone I happened to get is not my best finisher, it is a very versatile hone. I can use it with slurry at take a razor off my Aoto or even my Norton 1k all the way to shave ready. Or, I can take a razor to it after my BBW or DT with just water and get the blade shave ready. What stone does that sound like? That's right; the closest comparison I can make is to a coticule.
So, did I get what I was looking for? No. I hoped to get a great finisher for not a lot of money, and that is not what I got. That said, the hone that I got is still a great hone that can certainly be put to good use. If you are willing to take a little risk and put in the time to figure out whatever hone you get, it will be an enjoyable experience for you. If you want to make a quick buy and know exactly what you are getting, you should expect to do a lot more work up front or else find a different seller. These should not be read as negative comments - that's just the way it is.
I dunno about meaningless - I don't think it's straightforward or intuitive, but at least he must understand it.
After emailing him a lot, from what I could gather, 1-3 (or 1-5 for H) represents different categories or big differences, the +'s represent orders of refinement. So 3 in grit means its fine, like a finisher, then each plus means harder. (rough, middle fine for grit) I could be very wrong but thats what it seems he means by it. Occasionally you'll see a - too, but usually its +'s.
it might be meaningless but its some sort of reference when you talk to the guy.
His English is not very good, and unless one knows Japanese there is no way one can communicate to him what one is looking for. The guy, half of the time will tell you he has a nice fine finisher, and half the time he is only a miner and does not know anything about the quality of the stones.
He seems to respond better when you tell him what you looking for on his HGAL scale.
I think it would have been great if he offered people the chance to try the stones and decide if they want to keep them or not.
that's what i figured too.
he uses 1-5 for hardness and + as intermediate grade.
as far as the rest of the ratings they seem to go up to 3 , and the more +'s you have after the better the characteristic. It looks like the best possible stone by his standards is
5++/3++++/3++++/3++++ which would be priced in the thousands of $$ range.
no he has sold one that is 5(3+s)/3(5+s)/3(5+s)/3(5+s)
interesting,I have been told that info by a person that has purchased quite a few stones from him. It looks like the inconsistency of the guy is the biggest problem ,I wish he offered people the chance to try the stones before purchase.
I assume that stone you got from him is very good?
I could be wrong. I just seem to remember that. I KNOW I have seen 5 +'s on some of his 3's. (wow that is confusing lol)
My one and only buying experience with this seller has been an absolute disaster. The product was not at all as described. The packaging was done with little to no care. The stone arrived broken in two and not as described. When confronted with these issues the seller was not willing to resolve the issue.
I now deal exclusively with another seller on eBay for my natural Japanese stones, and am very happy with his products and services.
His packaging does leave somethign to be desired. And ANYTHING that involves work on his part will cost money.
An actual email: (I added the bolding) Notice how he seems helpful- he hid stones that I was looking at so the wholesaler didn't get them, yet then he told me to wait and not contact him and he wouldn't help.
Quote:
Sir.
The round pretty baby stone is 60mm dia and 40mm height. 25.4mm=1inch.
Please compare.
I forgot it.
Today ,Wholesaler visited us and so busy ,sorry for delay.
But stones are hided by me~~~~
All of them more than H5 and GAL are special class..
No problem
You know much handing are spent for individual selling well..
I`m afraid to spend handing.
I told you again.
You may go to wholesaler or retailer.
I feel there is no manner to deal with wholesale value if you want wholesale value.
I can take communication with you ,if you consider my handing and time.
OK?
However you have to wait primary stone.
And if you are vary satisfied with our SP stones ,you may deal with me again.
I take even the photograph if I feel like it.
Please leave me unattended.
Regards
More you dig in to this and more problems comes out.
At first look i thought same "this guy has English Problem"
In fact
I really don't think so. if he needs English he speaks Pretty clear.
This is what i think About this seller.
His business in the rise at the moment.(we are part of it)
what happen is this .All of us seeing the cheapest price this person has on the Japanese stones and try to contact him and buy from him. This is usual and have to happen .
What buyer wants? spend less money and get better product???
We forget "too good to be truth"
What seller wants? Sell as much product as he can for more money?
Do we all get from That Particular seller exactly what we want?
I am sure not. Has any of you send your stones back to him when you are unhappy with it? Of course not.
He simply will not answer to your emails. ( actual reason i am not sure may be he is too busy to answer 30emails from 1 person or doing cutting stone job etc don't know and don't care).
Most of us have no idea what we are getting from Seller. i have read some seller's paint their stone to hide defects in it. (defects will surface later on) (Again please this doesn't mean he does painting) In that case defective stones are a lot cheaper.
Now lets see where we at now.
Our Seller's
Include
OLD_SCHOOL
ALEX GILMORE
TELLY
ZEITH-SOMETIMES
MARK
ETC so on.
They give you guaranty with their stones. You bought stone if there is something is not making you happy you let them now.
Even Alex told me recently "i will send you stone you test it you don't like he will pay for shipping back to him"? This really shock me. He is great Person to deal with.
I had a good experience with Mark ( i have to admit i did make mistake toward to him .) So on.
Let's say most of the stone buyers from srp are individual honer's . They want the best final finishing stone to do the job. they will not hone 10.000 razor's . they are not looking stone which will do the job 1k------16k level opposite they are looking for final finish stone,
My recommendation will be -go head use 1 of the people above i mentioned and you will be happy. I understand you will spend much more money but you will get what you need.
For people who hones a lot including woodworking jobs etc 330.mate is priceless.Why because it is cheap and he has stones could do everything.
I hope i was fair.honest and this will help someone.
GL
I think the stones he eBays are stones he feels he will get more money on eBay for than if he listed at his site.... on average.
Browsing his site seems to confirm this.
Stones that meet his listing standards can be had for listing price or less, but usually sell fast (often quite a bit less than eBay price), more often you find equal or better (rated) stones that are quite a bit larger for similar or slightly more available.
A bit more that I know about him.
His STARTING ebay price is what he wants for the stone. Everything else is gravy for him. I get Second chances any time I bid opening bid on his auctions. You figure, ebay, paypal, shipping all taking a cut. He's seeing what, 75% of that price. I'd say if you can make heads or tails of his webpage, it's by far the best way to get a stone from him. There's a reason the eBay stones aren't listed individually, while he has listed some $10 Iyo's individually on his website. He's putting less effort into these stones because they are worth less to him. I THINK that's what that email you posted was trying to convey. The reason he lists the eBay stones for what he does is because he's not testing them much, grading them, sorting out cracks or looking very hard for detrimental inclusions. He slaps them with some steel, see's that they're "Good enough" to list under the approximate ratings his eBay auctions give, then ships them out. When you're asking him to handpick a stone he see's maybe $30-50 of the cost of not considering what the stone actually costs him (my guess is not very much), you're asking a lot of the guy. If he was going to test them and find what you're asking for, he'd do that and list it on his site for $150.
Cordiallity has a tendancy to get lost in translation.
Ian, Hi_Bud_GL, and others,
You are all correct. This guy is very smart and is just trying to make a living like the rest of us. You get what you pay for. He is trying to make money and will not give things away. He is a very busy man and probably very frustrated by people wasting his time with no intentions to buy. He is a wholesaler and would rather sell large quantiies than one stone. There are things that come across wrong because of a languare barrier but his english is very good and much better than my Japanese :) My exchanges have been good and I have taken great care to make sure I am concise, polite, and brief. He had alot to do. There is a lot of work involved in mining, selecting, and grading these rare stones. Chances are he may even be reading this thread. I am sure the other sellers here are too :) I am not hiding anything here. He is cheaper because of the gamble involved and you have to decide if you are willing to take it. I think I would rather spend a premium and buy a stone that will serve me well for the rest of my life. I hope this is not taken wrong. Just wanted to help others in the future.
An update: I promise this will be my last word on this, but I am telling the truth. Take it for what it's worth.
Based on my most recent communication today, it turns out there is in fact no language or cultural barrier, after all! In perfect English I was asked to pay the equivalent of $35 USD to even see a picture of a specific stone he had described.
That got through loud and clear, no misunderstanding. I responded in clear English, as well. Now I know.
As I said earlier- "premiums" require "handing" which costs $$$.
I paid 150%ish for mine for handing though, and its a great deal- $110 instead of $70, but I got a great finisher out of it that was hand selected and could see the picture. So while it is a slap in the face to pay $40 for pictures and other small things, it goes a long way with reassurance when buying and is cheaper than the $500-$1000 you'd pay somewhere else. Though, if I had the money, I probably would have bought from O_S or Alex or the others. Much friendlier and better customer service. But as Nakaoka-san (330mate) says, if you want handing, go to retailer.
Karl
One of the things I think is pretty cool on his site is the map of the whetstone mines:
天然石産地MAP - 天然石 伊予 本山 山城銘 白鷹包丁 玄翁 鉋 鑿
It is easier to navigate if you run the page through a translation program.
What I have done is used the map to find stones from particular mines on his site. For instance, to find stones he has labeled as Nakayama, you enter 中山 (the symbol from the map for Nakayama) into his search bar and you get :
天然石 伊予 本山 山城銘 白鷹包丁 玄翁 鉋 鑿
I just received my first purchase from 330mate.I purchased my stone through his Dutch Auction which is on his web site. The stone was well packaged. I selected the expedited shipping as recommended and the stone arrived without any problems.
I am still learning how to use his web site. The more I explore the site, the better I like it. At first I was having trouble using the site. Once I registered and accessed with Internet Explorer, the translation automatically kicks in. Without the translation I was lost. Now I can easily view the stones he is offering and I communicate more easily with any questions I may have.
I do like his rating system as a guide. I appreciate the fact that at least he is willing to provide information regarding his evaluation of the stones he is selling. It may not be the most accurate guide but I find it helpful.
I was looking at some stones today for the first time. Didn't realize that was there. Still pretty confusing. Couldn't get it to register me either. Seemed like a phone number problem..... couldn't tell. Will just stick to who I can talk to for now.
FWIW, I've done some wholesaling in the past. Sales for individual pieces are not worth the effort, really. I'd rather sell 20 pieces in one sale than 20 pieces in 20 sales. Back when I was doing this work, I would consider conducting a single sale to be a personal favor just because of how time consuming the sale was (or could be). In all honesty, selling one piece to a finicky buyer can take hours of my time as the buyer sifts through my sale items. No offense, of course ... but natural razor hones are a finicky business by nature (hardy har har).
Almost every sale I conducted like this I remember being relieved (mild statement) when the customer finally left. After some time in this field, I developed a similar approach to the single sale buyer.
Not that I am defending the guy or anything ... just sayin'. As the kids say today : I feel this guy.
But knowing that there is little to no money in a single sale like eBay or something similar ... I have to wonder why he would be open to conducting such sales.
When you buy retail, it costs more. A lot of that is because you get (or should get) personalized attention.
I suspect that because I am registered on his site and have purchased several stones from him. I have moved to a different category.
I also use IE to browse his site and am really getting to find the search function useful.
Since he describes in English which stones he feels are suitable for razors, one can search for "Razor" in English and browse those. I usually feel the Google translation makes more sense to me. If I find a stone that interests me, I also use the Babelfish translation to ask questions.
BTW, he gets a little annoyed when one asks about a stone that has already sold. [N/A] means it has already sold. I think it must happen a lot.