Bob keyes gets great edges of the nortons there 's no dout. Its true what jimmy says you have to be shave ready at the 8k level if your not your wasting your time using your coti or eschers thury etc. I for one newster think ah if i get a higher grit the razor will become better but it does'nt work like that. there is no reason why any one carn't shave of 8k if honed fully. Then if you use your thury you will apreciate the extra smoothness.