Thread: Pre-coticule synthetic for bevel repair?

I'm in the market for a new hone...hehehehe (the giggle of a budding HAD casualty).

I've been using dilu/unicot methods with a natural BBW/Coti (with a fast cutting coti side) followed by a slower cutting (but higher quality) select grade coti. If there are no huge problems with the bevel or edge, the results are great and it doesn't take all that much time. BUT...if the edge has minor chips, or the bevel needs serious correcting, it can take a very, very long time to get things looking and feeling pretty.

I've got a 1000 grit suehiro (sold under Robert Larson Tools label), but it can be a little too aggressive. I read a thread where Lynn found a Naniwa 5000 sufficient for most bevel setting, but I figure my BBW/coti can do what a 5000 grit can do. I'm leaning toward a 3000, because it would only leave a narrow gap in approximate grit from that to the BBW.

So the question is: will a Naniwa 3000 be sufficient for minor repairs, or should I go lower?

I have the 1k and 3k Naniwa and I would say if you're looking to get chips out the 1k would definately be the way to go.

3k-5k will work fine if you have an Ok bevel already but if you're looking to go past that and set a totally new bevel or get into edge repair its got to be a 1k IMO. You could do it on 3k, but it would take you a lot longer.

I usually use synthetic stones right up until the final finisher where I swap to a natural but when I hone on my coti/BBW combo, I go from the 1k Naniwa to the coti with a heavy slurry, then the BBW with a medium slurry then the coti with a light slurry and finish on the coti with just water. That seems to work very well and leaves a very nice edge.

To be honest its worth investing in a DMT 325 diamond plate if you're going to get a Naniwa of any grit, just to lap it periodically. This then serves nicely as a chip removing device.

You can easily go from a DMT 325 to a 1K Nani to BBW with slurry and then on.

You would not NEED the 3K in this case.

Thanks--I wasn't sure if it would be too big a leap going from the 1K to the coti, but as long as I know it's worked for somebody I'll give it a shot. And great idea about the DMT for lapping. I've been using sandpaper, but I suppose I'd come out ahead in the long run as far as cost with the DMT, and it can do double-duty for serious damage. I like it!

Originally Posted by QuinnFlint

Thanks--I wasn't sure if it would be too big a leap going from the 1K to the coti, but as long as I know it's worked for somebody I'll give it a shot. And great idea about the DMT for lapping. I've been using sandpaper, but I suppose I'd come out ahead in the long run as far as cost with the DMT, and it can do double-duty for serious damage. I like it!

The DMT can certainly 'double-duty' as you say. I think many here use it for that. And you can definitely go from a 1K to a coti, although its not always ideal. Read my signature and you'll undertstand that a coti is not a known stone.

IF your coti can perform at least as a medium cutter as far as cotis are concerned, then its entirely possible. Not always ideal, but some swear by it. It's nice to have a 3K synthetic as an alternative honing setup. Different stones work better for different razors.

I don't bother using coticules for anything other than 8K + now and kept my smallest 4'' as a finisher. My other two which were 7'', I sold as I didn't really need or use them. That 4'' as it happens is a bevel setter as well as an awesome finisher in the 10K range. Great little vintage coti!

+1 on the 325 DMT, I have on for lapping and edge repair as Scipio says. Good stone!

Originally Posted by QuinnFlint

I'm in the market for a new hone...hehehehe (the giggle of a budding HAD casualty).

I've been using dilu/unicot methods with a natural BBW/Coti (with a fast cutting coti side) followed by a slower cutting (but higher quality) select grade coti. If there are no huge problems with the bevel or edge, the results are great and it doesn't take all that much time. BUT...if the edge has minor chips, or the bevel needs serious correcting, it can take a very, very long time to get things looking and feeling pretty.

I've got a 1000 grit suehiro (sold under Robert Larson Tools label), but it can be a little too aggressive. I read a thread where Lynn found a Naniwa 5000 sufficient for most bevel setting, but I figure my BBW/coti can do what a 5000 grit can do. I'm leaning toward a 3000, because it would only leave a narrow gap in approximate grit from that to the BBW.

So the question is: will a Naniwa 3000 be sufficient for minor repairs, or should I go lower?

Given that you have the finisher base covered you have a lot
of options.

Two families of hones come to mind.

Naniwa hones are top notch. If you stick with one hone
maker you can get another well graded hone to
supplement your progression with little problem.
I think Naniwa has a 3K/8K combo that is worth a hard look
for the same reason that the Norton 4k/8k hone is such
a work horse. Naniwa has the advantage of other
hones to fill out the progressions, above and below 3/8K
a little bit cleaner than others. This can be important
when mixing natural hones and man made hones.

Another option is the DMT diamond hones. It is
a good thing to have very flat hones and more so on a
fast cutting coarse hone. I like a fine DMT for removing
nicks and tiny chips and use an extra coarse one for lapping
'rock' hones and dealing with big chips. Unless you do a lot of
restores they can be shorter 6" diamond hones to save a buck.
DMTs can be had down to 8K so like Naniwa and Shapton
you can match the transitions.

If your 1K hone is too aggressive a 3K/8K Naniwa
combo or a 4K/8K Norton combo should be on your
consideration/ shopping list.

Price and availability in your area could be a tie breaker.

Thanks holli4p and Tom. I've honed up about 10 razors this weekend, and h4p, you're right, there are some redundancies; I often find myself with multiple choices at any given stage, and run the risk of overdoing it, especially at the lower grits (1K, 2K, 4K, etc.). Likewise with the higher grits between the coti and the Thuri.

I'm beginning to see the wisdom in Tom's reply regarding sticking to a particular manufacturer. I really like the way the Naniwa handles so far, but I'm also really digging the Norton, so after I spend some more time with both I think I may want to liquidate a few hones and build a comprehensive line of one particular brand.

As for finishing, I got this beat up 2-grit combo barber hone ("Panama Hone, Chicago") with light-brown and a black side, and lapped it yesterday. I was a little startled at how well it polishes-both sides seem to be much higher grit than my Swatys or other barber hones. And the black side is suspiciously similar to my (non-vintage) Thuringian--develops the same kind of "slimy" slurry. I'm gonna post some pics in a different thread and see if anybody knows anything about it.

THANKS AGAIN for all the replies. I don't quite have the "perfect" progression down just yet, but I'm getting some awsome edges, and I have a much better idea of the progression I want to end up with.

If you can afford to keep all your hones, it's a good idea. Sometimes one won't quite do it for a razor, and it's always good to have a plan B around.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

If you can afford to keep all your hones, it's a good idea. Sometimes one won't quite do it for a razor, and it's always good to have a plan B around.

And a plan C