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I'm racking my brain trying to decide, please offer some guidance.
I presently own a dmt 1200, 8X3 belgian blue (no slurry stone though), and a belgian yellow bout. I think I'd like to get a 8X3 yellow, plus a slurry stone to complete my honing system. However, I'm also thinking about the Naniwa set from SRD, 5000, 8000, 12000. Thoughts, comments, cursing...just kidding on the cursing. Help please. Thanks
encore,
The rules of HAD dictate that you get both the Naniwas and the 8x3 coti :)
I use the 1, 3, 8 & 12 k Naniwas, and for me, a relative newbie to honing, they have worked superbly.
I haven't got a natural, and I am hankering after a coti, which by coincidence, would also be an 8x3 !!
Good luck !
Have fun !
Best regards
Russ
I have Naniwas and a Coticule. I use my Naniwas all the time and rarely use my coticule (except as a finisher). So my preference is the Naniwas. That said, if you do decide to get a coticule, I don't think it's worthwhile to get an 8 x 3; again, just my own preferences, but I don't see any need for one that big, especially given the cost.
Naniwas all day. The thing is with the coticule is that you don't yet know what it can do. The Naniwas are very well known and proved performers. Besides that, a Naniwa 12K will give you a finer edge than just about any cotiucle by a quite a lot, with the exception of one or two vintage cotis out there...
Another +1 for the Naniwa's, they're great stones and very consistent. If you've got a coticule bout you can use that as a finisher if you like coticule edges, but the Naniwas will make things much easier in terms of consistently getting a good edge.
I hardly ever use my coticule to do a full honing and my default set of hones is the Naniwa 1/3/8/12k set with some sort of natural finisher afterwards.
I have a naniwa set (1k 3k 5k 8k and 12k) ánd a couple of natural combo's blue/coticule.
For me as beginner the naniwa's are easier to use but they are very expensive compared to a coticule. Also, and again in my personal experience, it takes me longer to put an edge to a razor using only a coticule.
In my limited experience, there's not much difference in edge between the two systems.
In terms of size, you effectively don't need a large coticule, I have a small (4cm width, 15-16cm long) coticule that's just perfect ánd was very cheap.
I think most who have experienced both would favour the Naniwa 12K as a superior finisher to a coticule. It certainly does the trick in far fewer laps. Why, coming of an 8k you would only need 20 laps on a 12K and that is it. Off an 8k to a coticule I'd say around 50 as a minimum, probably in most cases more.Quote:
Originally Posted by decraew
And then there is the quality finish itself. The trouble is there is a fair range of finishing capabilities between coticules and most are around 8-10K. Rarely some are as good as Eschers in the the 12K range and this is extremely rare.
But all Naniwa 12Ks are 12K and they all polish at the same speed.
Naniwas for me as well. I have both, and the quality of the edges I get off the Naniwas compared to coticule is chalk and cheese. Maybe I have a dud coticule or dont know how to use it, however I can get consistently reproducable results from the Naniwas.
The price from SRD for them is pretty good too.
Sounds like Naniwa is the winner. In that case, would I still "need" a 1k naniwa if I have the dmt 1200?
Thanks to everyone's replies.
You don't need a 1k if you have a DMT 1200. I'd recommend getting a 325DMT in order to lap your hones.Quote:
Originally Posted by encore
+1 on the 325 to lap. I'm using my DMT1200 to set bevels and I quite like it.
+1, you'll need the plate for lapping unless you go with sandpaper. The naniwa 1k is gentler than the 1200 diamond plate but not necessary. I have both and rarely use the plate. If and when you go for a yellow coticule get an 6 or an 8x2. It is cheaper and perfectly adequate to get you where you want to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio
man i love you guys. thanks for all the info!
Seems like the Naniwa sets are the ones to get. Most seem to use the 1k, 3k, 8k, and 12k. SRD has a set I am looking at and it comes with 5k, 8k, and 12k.
Question is: Is there a big difference between using the 3k apposed to the 5k? Or would I be good with the 5k?
I am figuring I would be ok with the 5k, 8k, 12k set and purchase a 1k separately, but I just want to make sure I am getting the right ones.
Curiosity Killed The Cat: has anyone ever sharpened knives with these stones as well as straights or would that ruin the stones?
I like the 5 8 route with the Naniwas myself.
So the 3k is a personal preference thing and the 5k, 8k, 12k set would be perfectly fine for Honing.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
In my limited experience, the 3k and 5k can be used either/or/both. But if you want to set bevels, I would highly recommend a 1k of some sort.
Sorry guys, but I think every answer missed the mark.
The OP asked for guidance regarding which honing system to use. This would be like asking "should I get a Ford F350 pickup or a Mini Cooper?" It really depends on how you plan on using it.
Encore didn't give any indication of what he intended to do with his hones and no one asked.
How many razors does he have?
Will he be buying razors to restore?
Will he be honing for others?
How many razors does he intend to hone?
Why did he have the BBW and DMT1200?
How are they working out for him.
Has he ever honed a razor?
Has he felt the edges off of either type of hone?
Encore, with the right skill, you can get great edges from either system. The Naniwas are more predictable and will be faster. This is much more of a factor if you are going to hone a lot of razors. (Only you will be able to decide what constitutes "a lot.") It is not as much of a factor if you only have a few razors that you want to maintain for yourself. Coticules have been used for hundreds of years and they work great, but each is a rock and will have individual variation, whereas the Naniwas as synthetics are pretty much all the same.
If you can explain more about how you intend to use your hones, you will get much better advice.
I use all my stones except for my CF to sharpen knives and as long as you keep the stones flat there are no issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by TSasser
Claude
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude
Table Top it is. Thank you :D
i have both sets . i have the 1k,5k,8k,10,12k. plus i have coticules in a thew differant sizes, 8x2 is a nice size. i have to say i use my 600 diamond plate for serious bevel setting other than that i use my 1k naniwa which i like very much the 12k does leave a nice finish that i also like, and as said it should take no more than 10 to 20 laps. having said all that i have not used the full system that much. As i go straight to my coticule after 1k and it seems to do a nice job also after that i supose i could finish on the 12k saving me some laps on coticule. so i would say get both if you can aford it . if its mainly for touch ups and just a little beyond that i would but coticule or 12k naniwa. your choice. if was me i would buy coticule
+1 on Naniwas...I learned honing on the Naniwas. But I would add the 1k to your list as well...It is indispensable for bevel setting.
I also own 3 Cotis, which took me awhile to get the hang of. So, with these, I use the Naniwas less (except the 12K). So with my Cotis, now I use the following in my progressions, which has been working out great:
1. Naniwa 1k (if bevel setting or minor edge repair needs to be done) - this is less frequent now as all my razor edges have been taken care of
2. Coti (with slurry - using almost exclusively dilucot) - this basically replaced my Naniwa 5k and 8k
3. Naniwa 12K
4. Escher and/or Kiita JNat - gives the edge a fabulously smooth edge with I like a lot.
I am still learning the secrets of each of the stones, alone and in combination. I figure, in the next 50 years I will know everything there is to know about these stones :D.
Well, I ended up getting the 5k,8k,12k set from SRD. I've honed one genco razor on them and really liked the feel and feedback the naniwas gave. When I first started straight razor shaving I was advised getting the dmt fine for lapping, dmt extra fine for bevel setting, bbw for the edge, and a yellow bout for polishing.
I never really like my set-up though. I didn't get a slurry stone to begin with (I now have one), and I didn't like the size of the bout.
I currently have approximately 16 razors. I shave with about four of them and the rest are project razors for restore.
I owned a Norton when I was a teen for sharpening knives and never could get them really sharp. Not sure of the grit of the stone either, all I can remember is it was a dark Grey. Didn't really like the stone that much and it was a dry stone.
The more I keep hearing about Naniwa's the more I am liking the sound of them. From what I can gather as well is that a Barber Hone and a Coticule Hone are similar to the N12K. I may be missing something with that but if most Barber Hones are similar to the N12K then would it not be easier to get the N12K and use that instead of getting a variety of Hones or stones that react differently? I want to make a sound decision and I am not interested in owning a bunch of different types. I am considering getting the .5 Co-Ox Spray to go along with everything thought, I figure I can use it on my strop since I am going to be getting a new one.
Is the naniwa 12k that much better than a coti as you say? Anti HAD tells me that it isn't :D
As far as finishing is concerned: it's a matter of preference really. I prefer coticule-finished edges.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeness
But a coticule is much more versatile than simply a naniwa 12k, in that you can also do bevel setting with it.
I love the edge off the naniwa 12K, it usually follows my Norton 8K in my normal progression. An Escher usually follows though for the finish.
Coticule edges, imo, are good but feel a little different and to me have a sticky type of feeling to the edge, keep this in mind when considering them. The slower they are on water too, usually the stickier the edge can feel, especially in tough spots. It's not a "cutting through hot butter" edge like a Naniwa 12k or an Escher edge.
It's all about you and what you like in the end. :rock:
The Naniwa is a pure Finisher, the Coticule is not..Quote:
Originally Posted by jeness
It really depends on what you are after, also it depends on the Coticule you can find, a very selected few will finish in the same range as a Naniwa will, but the chances of finding one of those now days are pretty low...
The simple solution is own both :) embrace the HAD :D
Noooo, I was thinking the same, that I have to get a naniwa 12k to try it. This forum is very bad for your budget. HAD is tough to beat :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
If it helps any, I would recommend getting a Vintage Coticule. They seem to finish better than the newer ones because they were very soft and the soft ones leave very sharp edges from what I've experienced.
If you get a new one and it's hard and you can't scratch the surface with your nail then I would suggest trying to swop it for a soft one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeness
I swear Brother, it truly is .... :)
I have RAD pretty much under control now, very few razors left that I just have to own,,, But the Rocks !!!! OY!!!
I have a vintage thuri (maybe escher), do I still need the nani 12k? (Actually yes, thats what the voices say :D)
You'll never be satisfied until you try it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jeness
Ime the old escher type stones benfit from a maxed out edge so a 12k helps you get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeness
Oy indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
My Naniwas just arrived and my twenty some razors are in such good condition that I'll have to acquire a "new" blade if I am to test the Nanis.
My recent efforts have been devoted to the coticule and j-nat (asagi) - with and without slurries - and I am so pleased with the results that I have prematurely concluded that the Naniwas, especially the 12k, are redundant (but as the chairman of the Department of Redundancy Department, I had to buy them anyway).
Lots of ways to skin the cat. Lots of stones to enjoy.
you don't, but you wouldn't be sure until you try it. at the end it's not that expensive to try. it seems that reselling at a little bit of a discount works well.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeness
i have coticules, naniwas, eschers, thuringians, et ceteras.... so much stuff i don't use, but i have the comfort that they are right there available for me anytime i want to use them :)
I use the naniwas too, best hone I have tried. I go to the nani every time I don't have success with my other hones. I think I should put the nanis aside for a few weeks and hone on my others exclusively :) I want a good coti edge badly, so I wont stop until I get it :)
Where did you get the et ceteras? I feel a need comming up:banghead:Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi