Naniwa Super Stone questions...

Hey Gents!

Long time no see. :)

Kind of a long story, but the past couple years have been... trying, to say the least. I sold my complete set of Shapton on Glass stones, a bunch of razors, a bunch of guns, and other collectibles due to extended time off work from medical problems. But that's all behind me now, things are going great.

So for the past year or so, I've made do with a couple Coticules, and a four sided pasted paddle strop. I've had pretty good success at keeping my daily shavers acceptably sharp, but now I'm back where I was a few years ago...restoring some old razors that I've had for years now.

So I need new stones. I did like my Shaptons, but they never seemed to be very fast cutters. Fast stones are a necessity for me, as I have shaky hands, and I'm a two-handed honer that uses slow strokes. As you can imagine, without fast cutting stones, it takes me forever to take a completely dull blade to smooth shaver.

I've had great success taking dull razors to smooth shavers using the coticules, but both of my coties are pretty slow cutters, even with a heavy slurry (well, that's not entirely true.. one is fast *for a cotie*, but that's still not very fast for me since I'm so slow). The results are good, but getting there is a long, arduous process.

If you were on a limited budget, would you go with the Naniwa Super Stones? I just added up the cost of a 1K through 12k set and lapping stone (my DMT's are MIA due to a recent move), and it comes out just a bit over 300 bucks. Sheesh, I paid more than that just for my 32k Shapton! This seems like a great deal, but... they need to be fast cutters.

Are the Super Stones some of the fastest cutters around, or can you guys recommend an alternative set for a slow honer like me?

Also, I'm thinking about selling my coties. Back when I bought them, the price of coties was going through the roof. Are they still spendy, or has the price come down a ways?

Super Stones are plenty fast, and you could probably finance them with your coticules. Word has it that cots are getting even more pricey. If it were me, I'd make the trade now. You could wait six months and maybe get 10% more for your coticules, but then you wouldn't have had Super Stones to play with for six months. Timing is everything, as you know...

From what I hear the Choseras are fastest out there but they are pricey. At least the 10,000 is.

If you want stone recommendations that is fine. If you want to buy some post a WTB in the classifieds.

If you want to sell your coticules post an ad in the classifieds. We don't allow soliciting in the forum outside of the classifieds.

I'm not pulling your post so that others can see this reminder in case they haven't read the rules we all agree to when we register.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

From what I hear the Choseras are fastest out there but they are pricey. At least the 10,000 is.

If you want stone recommendations that is fine. If you want to buy some post a WTB in the classifieds.

If you want to sell your coticules post an ad in the classifieds. We don't allow soliciting in the forum outside of the classifieds.

I'm not pulling your post so that others can see this reminder in case they haven't read the rules we all agree to when we register.

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Hey Jimmy, not trying to solicit anything. Just wondering what the market for coties has done in the past couple years is all. Didn't interpret the rules to mean that asking what the market has done is a no-no.

Your post seems like I upset you with what I said. Certainly wasn't my intention.

I'll just do some reading, and avoid posting stuff from now on.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

Hey Jimmy, not trying to solicit anything. Just wondering what the market for coties has done in the past couple years is all. Didn't interpret the rules to mean that asking what the market has done is a no-no.

Your post seems like I upset you with what I said. Certainly wasn't my intention.

I'll just do some reading, and avoid posting stuff from now on.

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My bad for not sending you a PM instead of posting publicly. I don't doubt that selling your coticules was not your intention. OTOH, your post could have been interpreted as looking for a buyer for your coticules. That was the point of my previous reply. Feel free to post FP and glad to see you back around.

Hey FloorPizza, it has been awhile! I guess you missed the Naniwa craze then? Yes, they've gained a solid reputation for being good hones at great prices. Many members have the entire line and use them as a system without complaint. You could certainly do worse.

Be well,

Ryan

My naniwa 220 cuts much faster than my shapton 220. However, neither one of them are fast compared to my sigma SiC water stone or norton crystelon, but you are looking for stones starting at 1k. My understanding of the superstones in higher grits is that they cut more slowly than other options, but leave a highly polished edge.

Lately, I've been trying some of the stones recommended on the tools from japan blog and store. So far, his analysis of japanese water stone properties has been accurate. The king neo 800 grit, naniwa chosera 1k and sigma power select 2 are reported to be the fasted stones in the 1k range. When my shapton 1k wears out, or I have the money, I plan on trying a king neo. I also use a shapton 4k and 8k, but I plan on replacing both the them with a sigma 8k, as it cuts so aggressively you can jump from 1k to 8k. Right now I go from the 8k shapton to a pasted strop, but I'd like to add a kitayama 8k as a final polishing stone.

The Naniwas are great in the higher grits, and they cut very quickly, but I find the 1K range is far too soft-- it dishes too quickly, and just doesn't set bevels well. I think maybe a Norton, Chosera, or Shapton 1K and then a 5k-8k-12k Naniwa set would do very well for you.

Thanks for all the info, Gents, much appreciated. Leaning toward getting the 1k in Chosera form, then getting the rest of the Super Stone line up. Especially if the Chosera 1k is one of the fastest around... it takes me forever to set bevels.

That was one of the things I didn't like about my Shapton 1k... it took *forever* to set a bevel with the thing. The speed of the stone sucked, but the quality of the bevel was sa-weet.

Honestly, I'd be willing to spend the most money at the 1k level than any other hone. Dreaming about a 1k stone that would set bevels with no microchips in even the most brittle stainless steel very quickly. I've always kinda felt like the 1k stone really was the foundation that the rest of the edge was based on, and a really good bevel setter is a necessity.

Thanks again, Gents, much appreciated. :)

Hey FP & welcome back.
Shame your DMT's are MIA. Don't get any faster & flatter than diamond plates for restore work. Tho the microchipping can be an issue with some razors. I usually swap out to my Shaptons GS after the DMT's. Don't find speed an issue with the Shaps but honing style could play a part. Hard to avoid some microchipping on the coarser stones but the next stone in line should deal with it. Good luck with whatever your choice

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Hey FP & welcome back.
Shame your DMT's are MIA. Don't get any faster & flatter than diamond plates for restore work. Tho the microchipping can be an issue with some razors. I usually swap out to my Shaptons GS after the DMT's. Don't find speed an issue with the Shaps but honing style could play a part. Hard to avoid some microchipping on the coarser stones but the next stone in line should deal with it. Good luck with whatever your choice

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Hey Oz, good to hear from ya. :)

Yeah, I'm sure the DMT's will turn up, it's just a matter of sorting through the stacks of moving boxes.

I used to set the initial bevel with a DMT before moving on to the Shaptons, but as you mentioned, the micro chips caused by the DMT's on brittle blades were a bit of a pain.

The more I read about the Chosera's, the more I'm leaning in that direction. Hard to justify the cost, though.

Leaning toward getting a 1k Chosera, then 2k, 3k, 5k, 8k Super Stones, then a 10k Chosera.

I've read in a bunch of different places now that a lot of people feel that the finish of a Chosera 10k is better than the 12k Super Stone, and even better than the 16k Shapton GS.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

I've read in a bunch of different places now that a lot of people feel that the finish of a Chosera 10k is better than the 12k Super Stone, and even better than the 16k Shapton GS.

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I don't have one so I can't say. If you do an advanced search with Bart and with English as the posters and Chosera as the keyword you'll find what they thought of the 10k. I know English sold his shortly after giving glowing first impressions. IIRC Bart liked the cutting power and speed but soon gave it up for his beloved coticule honing. I think it was his preference for the feel of the edge off of the coticule as opposed to the 10k. I could never bring myself to go for the $ even when it was on sale every once in awhile. If you get one I'll be interested to see how it works for you.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

Leaning toward getting a 1k Chosera, then 2k, 3k, 5k, 8k Super Stones, then a 10k Chosera.

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It wouldn't be a significant savings overall, but you easily could skip the 3k in that progression.

I'd like to see some comparisons, Chosera vs Naniwa SS. Are the Chosera's superior to the Naniwa SS. I have a set of Nani, If I bought the Chosera's, would I be, Holy Sh*t, Where have these stones been all my life...?

From my perspective and I have honed a couple thousand razors on both the Chosera and Super Stone Naniwas, they are pretty comparable on performance. The Chosera is definitely a harder feeling stone. Although you can finish on the 10K Chosera, I find the finish off the Super Stone 12K to be less harsh feeling. They are both excellent cutters. I have worn out my Super Stone 1K and am not attempting to do the same on the Chosera. Betting that won't happen any time soon. Tis a much thicker stone. But........for the normal person honing razors, the Super Stones should also last you a life time. Actually, you really can't go wrong with either of these stones. The choice will be a personal one.

Have fun,

Lynn

Thanks Lynn, I was hoping you would chime in on this...

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Originally Posted by Utopian

It wouldn't be a significant savings overall, but you easily could skip the 3k in that progression.

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You could skip the 2K also. 1-5(or 3, but you don't need to do both)-8-finisher (optional) is a very common progression & is what most of us use. Nothing at all wrong w/ HAD :D, but you don't need every stone in a series for routine sharpening.

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Originally Posted by PA23-250

You could skip the 2K also. 1-5(or 3, but you don't need to do both)-8-finisher (optional) is a very common progression & is what most of us use. Nothing at all wrong w/ HAD :D, but you don't need every stone in a series for routine sharpening.

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I figured someone would point this out. I'll just say that I really like including a 2k after a 1k. Considering the common convention of each grit jump being doubled from the previous one, the 2k makes sense.

I think there are a bunch of stones out there that we don't use on razors that 'may' be applicable & in the 'budget' range compared to the Chosera eg the Bester & the Shapton Ha No Kuromaku ( JP version of the Pro series). I've used the Bester 2k & liked it a lot speed wise & durability wise except it needs a lot of soaking. I've also tried the 5k followed by 12k in the JP Shaps & loved that progression. Very fast & not the big jump I imagined. I'd need to do a lot more razors to really recommend them but I 'd certainly consider buying some if I wore out my GS stones. I wonder if anybody is using these regularly on razors ? Might start a new post in the honing section.