Fine honing stone choice question...

Hi,

Fairly new to the practice of honing.

By now, I have a good basic set-up; Norton waterstones in 1k, 4k, and 8k, and a nice, wide, well-conditioned leather-strop. I've looked at the honing how-tos here and elsewhere, and think I understand the basics. I also think I'm missing a fine honing stone in my collection, which explains why that perfect edge is being so darn elusive.

Now, from what I read here, good choices for the fine stone are the Thuringian, the Escher, and the Naniwa (10 or 12k). I have identified a source for the T & (gray-green) E, and one for the N.

Question is which one, or do I need a combination of two :shrug:? I'm trying to achieve the finest edge possible, for a super-smooth shave. I'm leaning towards the Naniwa, partially for cost (at $80, it's about $40 less than the others), but also, if I'm reading correctly, it's used without slurry, which seems just a little simpler. Would appreciate any input from the experts. Thanks!

To be perfectly honest, it doesn't matter much. How much do you want to spend?

Until you can get a good shave off your 8K, none of the above are really going to help much anyway, and then the choice will provide such insignificantly different edges it really won't matter. For that matter, you can get away with a 8k with a paste or no paste or whatever you want.

If you can find a true Escher for $120, buy it and sell it on eBay. You'll be happy with the result most likely...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by richmondesi

To be perfectly honest, it doesn't matter much. How much do you want to spend?

Until you can get a good shave off your 8K, none of the above are really going to help much anyway, and then the choice will provide such insignificantly different edges it really won't matter. For that matter, you can get away with a 8k with a paste or no paste or whatever you want.

If you can find a true Escher for $120, buy it and sell it on eBay. You'll be happy with the result most likely...

---

Thanks for the straight answer, good to know that it's more of a software problem, not a hardware issue! I'll keep working with the 4/8k until I get it right (just discovered a great vid by gssixgun).

Nevertheless, it seems there is quite a bit of discussion here and elsewhere about these fine stones. Are they just the icing on the cake of a good edge?

90% of successful honing (if not more) is done at the bevel setting stage, and by the time you get off your 8K, you should be getting a great shave. In fact, it was THE stone that everyone was shaving off of not long ago.

Yes, the finer grit stones are nice, but they aren't necessary. That's why I say get whichever one appeals to you, and if you are so inclined, you could be set and never buy another hone again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by richmondesi

90% of successful honing (if not more) is done at the bevel setting stage, and by the time you get off your 8K, you should be getting a great shave. In fact, it was THE stone that everyone was shaving off of not long ago.

Yes, the finer grit stones are nice, but they aren't necessary. That's why I say get whichever one appeals to you, and if you are so inclined, you could be set and never buy another hone again.

---

Oh So True +1 with Paul

Learn the 8k, then and only then branch out, also by then you most likely won't need our opinions on which one LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Oh So True +1 with Paul

Learn the 8k, then and only then branch out, also by then you most likely won't need our opinions on which one LOL

---

Cool. I must say your video on the use of the 4/8k stone has been the best and most informative I've seen so far. Details that I had not gleaned from other videos (on Youtube, not here) were how the stone really needs to be lapped, and to use a Nogura for making slurry with which to set the bevel. I now have a lapping stone on order (the Norton, didn't want to spend on the DMT), and a small Nogura.

One question: Is the Norton 1k stone preferable for setting the bezel, and do you need to rub up slurry on it as well?

1k Norton is a perfect bevel setter, and what everyone above said is important; the real sharpening is done at bevel-setting. If you don't set a good edge at 1k, all the rest is wasted time.

I agree with everything Paul's said (but I'm not nearly as experienced as him).

If I could get an Escher for 120 and it was a decent size (not one of those 1 inch by 5 inch Thuringians), I definitely would get that over a Naniwa. I can't say I like the edge better, because I haven't tried a Naniwa 12k edge, so the reason I'd take the Escher is more about value (which is a tricky subject) and collectibility. I think the Naniwa's value will drop after you've used it a bit. The value of an Escher is much more than 120 USD IMO.

Hi there,

Be wary of the new-stock Thuringians on the market now. Apparently they are not as fine as many of the labeled vintage ones (Droescher, etc.)

There has been a lot of discussion about them. I think if you search the forum for "new Thuringian" or even just "Thuringian" you'll find some more opinions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roughkype

Hi there,

Be wary of the new-stock Thuringians on the market now. Apparently they are not as fine as many of the labeled vintage ones (Droescher, etc.)

There has been a lot of discussion about them. I think if you search the forum for "new Thuringian" or even just "Thuringian" you'll find some more opinions.

---

This is true, the NEW thuringian stones that are being sold don't seem like Thuringians at all and are rough feeling, I say they are about 6K if that. I have one and I never use it because it's just not what it should be.

The old thuringian stones are where it's at.

If you want a finisher after practicing on the 8K for a while there is a bunch of affordable options out there, Chinese 12K is one of them.

Hi HamburgO

All good sound logical advice from previous threads. Bevel set IS the foundation and your current set up is excellent for that. Guys were getting good shaves from the 8K synthetic stones just a few years ago. Learn your basics first so you don’t waste money. 150 years ago and before, guys were using natural stones to achieve final finish and getting truly great shaves. That’s the fun part, trying to improve on what you know is good.

I too was looking for the most super smooth shave as possible. You have the correct attitude, always look to improve and experiment. Practice, practice on as many old razors as you can find. Share your knowledge with the rest of us. How’s that old saying go? “Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it.” That’s what we are about here on SRP.

The Naniwa 10K or 12K is a fine synthetic water stone. A very affordable, consistent and known performer. A vintage 150 yr old Escher can be around 30K and will cost some bucks. It is a “final” finisher. Be careful with natural stones Escher’s, Coticules, J-nats, etc. There is much out there that is not suitable for finishing “razors”. If you decide to move in this direction, only purchase from a reputable source. Then HAD kicks in and we have yet another convert to the ranks. I am working on acquiring another super fine J-nat and nagura even now. Do I need it? NO. Will it improve my edges? Time will tell. You’ll never know unless you take the trip down the rabbit hole HamburgO. Please keep us updated on your discovery. Have fun.

Mike

If money is a factor, you might consider pasted strops after the 8k. I use a .5m chromium oxide strop following my shapton 8k (1.84 micron, the norton 8k is 3 microns), followed by a .05m strop. Pasted strops are considerably less expensive than a stone in the 12k range. The shapton 30k is .49 microns and costs around $300. .5m and .25m diamond spray on felt and lapping film are other options.

That being said, finishing stones are more fun to use than pasted strops, so if you want a finishing hone, go for it.