Shapton Glass stones vs.Traditional or "Pro": What's the right choice?

I'm getting info overload trying to research this myself! Can anyone make a recommendation on the Shapton Glass Stone vs. the Traditional? I will be using these stones only for my Str8's so I don't care about cross functionality. Also, the Lapping stone seems really expensive. I'll make the plunge if some more "experienced"

One additional follow-up: Lynn Abrams talks about the 4k/8k Norton as his workhorse stone. I don't see the 4k Shapton's Pro Models too often. Would it make sense to get 4 stones (1k/5k/8k/15k) if in fact the pro or traditional is the way to go.

Thanks

Get the 4 Shaptons you have already mentioned and you would be fine, you can lap them on wet and dry automotive sandpaper, no need for expensive plates. You will get more consistency out of the Shaptons, naturals are very inconsistent with their ability, each one is a completely different critter.

Thanks! Just to be clear, I don't need to use the Shapton Lapping plate for $320? I can use auto wet/dry sandpaper on a flat surface? Would you go with glass stones or the Professional? I think they are both synthetic. Thanks again for the fast reply.

What you are asking is something that will more than likely be answered as any other shaving question, as we all have opinions.

With that being said, I have experience on Shapton GS & Naniwa systems. By meaning systems, I'm talking about using only that set of stones from start to finish, not mix and matching. You can hone pretty much ANY razor with ANY of the systems mentioned. Which would be easier to learn off of? I "think" the Naniwa's would be easier to learn off of as they seem to be more forgiving. What is my go to? The Shapton's, 1,4,8,16 & then the finisher. WHy? I have more expereince with them...that's the only true reason.

You don't need to spend $320 bucks on a lapping plate man. And wet/dry sandpaper rubber cemented to a piece of glass is a mediocre substitute. I would go on ebay and try to find a diamond DMT plate for lapping, You can find them for $10-$20 most of the time

Forget about the lapping plate, sandpaper is really all anyone needs. Everything else is just extra's...

Whatever you do, don't use rubber cement on the sandpaper as the water creates plenty of "stiction"

I would suggest checking out Bladerunner001's recent honing experiment thread.
He sure seems to get some super results with the Shapton Pro's.

Thanks. That's helpful. It seemed like from what I have read the Shaptons are so hard they could only be lapped with their lapping plate.

I'll check out that thread. I am always leaning in the direction of the more expensive things in life! Why should my Straight Razor obsession be any different?!

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Originally Posted by Rojo

I am always leaning in the direction of the more expensive things in life! Why should my Straight Razor obsession be any different?!

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Dude, it's like we are best friends already:)

You can spend the money if you want, but lapping with sandpaper worked for me on the GS's & as far as I know, they are about the hardest system available. I've used sandpaper to lap my Charnley Forrest as well...it doesn't get much harder than some of the naturals. I just use my DMT for slurry or blade repair any more.

If I could find 8" or larger DMT's for $10-20 I might change my ways...but I have never found large, new diamond stones for that price & if you use a diamond stone for lapping, it should be at least as large as your stone as far as length. Sandpaper is cheap and I've always got some on hand...

I have never honed on Shapton Glass, and I've only used the pro's once (I was impressed when I did).

I asked the same question of a vendor, here's the response I got:

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after testing them (Shapton Pro) against the GlassStone line I decided to carry the GlassStones. The Pro line is Shapton's older technology and is being phased out according to Shapton. Have you tried the GlassStones's? They're awesome

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That's interesting. How long ago did the vendor give you that info?

Just to echo what has been said already - give the plate a miss. I bought one - biggest waste of money I have made in a long time.

Regards,
Neil

Thanks for the input. I'll look into one of those DMT lapping plates. Got some mixed reviews on the wet/dry sandpaper.

Just to demonstrate once again that there are many differing opinions on all things shaving related...

I have the Shapton lapping plate and absolutely love it. Lapping with other plates like the DMT you will find that striction becomes an issue. The plate will seem to stick to the hone and this will make it hard to lap. The Shapton lapping plate has gaps between the raised diamond parts and so it never sticks to the hone. I'll admit the damn thing is way too expensive but in spite of that I have never regretted the purchase. Once I tried one I knew I would never go back. Good luck with your decision!

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Originally Posted by whitebar

Just to demonstrate once again that there are many differing opinions on all things shaving related...

I have the Shapton lapping plate and absolutely love it. Lapping with other plates like the DMT you will find that striction becomes an issue. The plate will seem to stick to the hone and this will make it hard to lap. The Shapton lapping plate has gaps between the raised diamond parts and so it never sticks to the hone. I'll admit the damn thing is way too expensive but in spite of that I have never regretted the purchase. Once I tried one I knew I would never go back. Good luck with your decision!

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That' great input! With me it has never been about the money. That being said, I don't ever like to throw it away on over priced, over hyped products. I'll do a little more research on all the Shapton products including the Sharpening Pool and stone holders. Sharpening Pool might be overkill. (As I mentioned earlier, this will be exclusively for my Str8's) Do you, or anyone else have a good source for Shapton Stones? Also, if you have grit recommendations for me that would be great. FYI- I don't have any vintage razors or any that need to be re-ground so I don't know if I need to invest in the lower grit models right out of the gate. Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by Rojo

Thanks. That's helpful. It seemed like from what I have read the Shaptons are so hard they could only be lapped with their lapping plate.

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Nothing harder than diamonds! :) As others have said, go w/ a DMT plate--in the long run, it'll be much cheaper than buying wet-dry paper all the time. You also won't have the problem of errant grit particles contaminating your hones.

They usually run around $40. I've had my 325 for almost 3 years & it works great. Would have cost me much more than that in sandpaper in that time!

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Originally Posted by Rojo

I'm getting info overload trying to research this myself! Can anyone make a recommendation on the Shapton Glass Stone vs. the Traditional? I will be using these stones only for my Str8's so I don't care about cross functionality. Also, the Lapping stone seems really expensive. I'll make the plunge if some more "experienced"

One additional follow-up: Lynn Abrams talks about the 4k/8k Norton as his workhorse stone. I don't see the 4k Shapton's Pro Models too often. Would it make sense to get 4 stones (1k/5k/8k/15k) if in fact the pro or traditional is the way to go.

Thanks

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When I reach the overload stage I usually back off and simplify things for myself. I start with the basics and after that, if I want to take things a step further, I address it later.

This article was very helpful for me. I found it before I found any shaving discussion group: Straight Razor Shaving: Is it For You?. It was presented in a way that seemed interesting and "doable."

After reading the comments from accomplished straight shavers, I didn't find anything that really contradicted what I read in the aforementioned article. So I'm sticking with the traditional, because if it's good enough for these people it's certainly going to deliver results that will impress me if I become skilled.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Whatever you do, don't use rubber cement on the sandpaper as the water creates plenty of "stiction"

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Agreed, agreed, agreed! :D

I have a set of the Shapton Pro hones and really like them. I don't care if they are old technology, they are very effective on straight razors. I have only used the Shapton Glass 1k and I found that the Shapton Pro1K was slightly more effective.

Regarding the DMT hones for lapping...get either the 220 or 325 grit. Anything finer is not recommended by the MFG and a number of us have had the unfortunate experience to back that up.

i have the shapton 5k pro stone and the 16k gs stone right now i can say i like the pro stone really cant compare the two ones a finisher and the other is not but i do like the pro i also have a dmt diamond plate 10x4 as long as you keep water on the plate and not let the slurry build up it wont stick . also with the pro the case can be used as the base with the gs you have to buy a base

I currently own and use:

Shapton Professional

• Pro 2.000 (Green)
• Pro 5.000 (Purple)
• Pro 12.000 (Cream)

Shapton Glass

• GS 1.000 (white)
• GS 4.000 (gray)
• Gs 6.000 (gray)
• GS 8.000 (gray)
• GS 16.000 (white)
• GS 30.000 (white)

Because I have no Pro 8.000 I usually put the Naniwa 8.000 between Shapton 5k and 12k.
I have used the Pro 8k and liked it.

Both the GS and the Pro are extremely well suited for razors.
The GS 16k as well as the Pro 12k leave a very good, highly mirror polished edge,
without serration and with positive HHT (for me). Off of both stones you can shave.

There is no significant difference, both are just fine. Buy whatever you like more.
I can recommend both systems. I would also recommend the DMT 325 for lapping.
It works fabulous, especially with the finer stones you will benefit from flatness,
even though wet/dry paper in 320 and 600 on a flat surface will do just fine

I began honing razors with the Norton Starter Kit. I soon added a Shapton Pro 15k and a DMT D8C 325 lapping plate. Because I had gotten the 15k pro from a friend I decided to go with the other stones in the Pro line and got all of them from 1 to 30k. I also got the Shapton GDLP lapping plate. Not long after that the Naniwa SuperStones came out and got great reviews. I had gotten good results with the Nortons and with the Shapton pros but was intrigued by the Naniwas. Business was good in those days and I bought them too.

After a couple of years of using all of the above I found that I liked the Norton 4/8 the best and I sold all of the naniwas and most of the shaptons. I kept the 15k and 30k pros and the lapping plate. I recently added the Chosera 1k to the mix and that has become my go to bevel setter when I need to go that low. I don't use a 1k unless I need it. Many times a 4k is sufficient. So having used all of these my personal preferences ended up being Chosera 1k, Norton 4/8 and either an Escher or a Nakayma Asagi to finish. I rarely use the 15k pro or the 30k.

The GDLP lapping plate is great but there is nothing wrong with the D8C and you can buy 8 of them for the price of one GDLP. It is true that stiction can be an issue with the DMT but I lap in the kitchen sink under running water so that takes care of that 95% of the time. The above preferences are mine alone and no reflection on the quality of the stones. A honer who knows his stones , you have to learn whichever stones you use, can get stellar results from any of them.

If you were to try them all, nuances of feedback on the stone and the feel of the edge of the razor would , over time, determine which ones are your particular favorites. Any of them are good for getting the job done. All of these stones were designed to sharpen plane and chisel blades. The pros are 15mm thick and the glass are 5mm. A few years ago when I was in your position, agonizing over which to buy, a vendor in the Northeast told me that Pros were being discontinued because the glass were superior. I had a feeling that was BS because he carried the glass and not the pros. Sure enough, three years later the pros are still for sale on Shapton's website along with the glass. So, they are all good, whichever you select IME. :gl:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I began honing razors with the Norton Starter Kit. I soon added a Shapton Pro 15k and a DMT D8C 325 lapping plate. Because I had gotten the 15k pro from a friend I decided to go with the other stones in the Pro line and got all of them from 1 to 30k. I also got the Shapton GDLP lapping plate. Not long after that the Naniwa SuperStones came out and got great reviews. I had gotten good results with the Nortons and with the Shapton pros but was intrigued by the Naniwas. Business was good in those days and I bought them too.

After a couple of years of using all of the above I found that I liked the Norton 4/8 the best and I sold all of the naniwas and most of the shaptons. I kept the 15k and 30k pros and the lapping plate. I recently added the Chosera 1k to the mix and that has become my go to bevel setter when I need to go that low. I don't use a 1k unless I need it. Many times a 4k is sufficient. So having used all of these my personal preferences ended up being Chosera 1k, Norton 4/8 and either an Escher or a Nakayma Asagi to finish. I rarely use the 15k pro or the 30k.

The GDLP lapping plate is great but there is nothing wrong with the D8C and you can buy 8 of them for the price of one GDLP. It is true that stiction can be an issue with the DMT but I lap in the kitchen sink under running water so that takes care of that 95% of the time. The above preferences are mine alone and no reflection on the quality of the stones. A honer who knows his stones , you have to learn whichever stones you use, can get stellar results from any of them.

If you were to try them all, nuances of feedback on the stone and the feel of the edge of the razor would , over time, determine which ones are your particular favorites. Any of them are good for getting the job done. All of these stones were designed to sharpen plane and chisel blades. The pros are 15mm thick and the glass are 5mm. A few years ago when I was in your position, agonizing over which to buy, a vendor in the Northeast told me that Pros were being discontinued because the glass were superior. I had a feeling that was BS because he carried the glass and not the pros. Sure enough, three years later the pros are still for sale on Shapton's website along with the glass. So, they are all good, whichever you select IME. :gl:

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Thanks for you insight. I guess in the grand scheme of things it makes sense to experiment with a variety of stone combination to find what works. Being from the NYC area it is not in my DNA to be patient. One of the reasons I enjoy using Str8's so much is that they force me to throttle back and find some serenity-even if just for and hour every other day! Are your eyes getting misty? LOL! Back to the task at hand, do you have a good source for your honing addiction? I need a fix!

I have had a full set of Shapton Pro's and Shapton Glass stones. Personally I preferred the Glass stones a little better. I love the GDLP and feel it is the best lapping instrument out there, but it is expensive. The DMT 8C works fine but does tend to stick to the higher grit stones some, but lapping under running water helps this. I also have a full set of Naniwa Super Stones and Naniwa Chosera and both these produce similar results. I like them a lot. In addition I have all the Nortons. Really any of the sets should work well for you depending on your preference. My go to regiment for the most part is a Naniwa Chosera 1K, Norton 4K/8K and Naniwa Superstone 12K followed by .5 diamond spray on felt. My biggest variation these days is in the finishing stones as I will rotate the 12K with the Shapton Glass 16K, Escher and a few Japanese Naturals. When I experiment, who knows..........

There are a lot of choices, but when it comes down to consistency and reliability, I will usually recommend Naniwa Super Stone, Shapton Glass or Norton. There are also other stones like the Coticule which can produce very nice results with some practice and you can even do a one one method with various thicknesses of slurry using a barber hone, so it really boils down to giving some of these stones a try and seeing what works best for you. Be patient and learn from your successes as well as your mistakes.

Have fun,

Lynn

Someone had previously stated that one of the reasons the Shapton lapping plate is great is due to the gaps and raised diamond parts. Has anyone had experience with the DMT Duo-Sharp plates that seem to have the same features? If so, can you chime in as to if they work more effectively than other methods?

The 220 side had almost no stiction at all; the 325 had just a tiny bit more, but still noticeably less than the standard 325. Both work fine.

For the Shapton Pro users: how fast do the stones load w/ swarf, especially compared to the Choseras if you've used both?

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Originally Posted by whitebar

Just to demonstrate once again that there are many differing opinions on all things shaving related...

I have the Shapton lapping plate and absolutely love it. Lapping with other plates like the DMT you will find that striction becomes an issue. The plate will seem to stick to the hone and this will make it hard to lap. The Shapton lapping plate has gaps between the raised diamond parts and so it never sticks to the hone. I'll admit the damn thing is way too expensive but in spite of that I have never regretted the purchase. Once I tried one I knew I would never go back. Good luck with your decision!

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DMT makes interrupted plates too. Not exactly the same pattern as the Shapton, but same effect.

Hi All,
Please excuse my ignorance, but are the Shapton Glass stones that you are discussing also known as Shapton Ceramic stones?
TIA

Yes, they are one in the same. Great stones, but if you are looking to get into honing your razors I would recommend the Naniwa Superstones as they are more forgiving. I have both & use both.

I paid for a setup of Shapton GS literally 5 minutes ago, 2-4-8-16, a DMT D8C and Shapton glass holder, got some great help from Glen choosing that setup. I think it will be allright... :)

Marvellous as the currently available diamond products are for so many purposes, I am a little wary of them for lapping sharpening stones. My reasoning, which could be mistaken, is that something only a little harder than the grit of the stone (or equally hard, in the casew of disposable paper) is more likely to expose fresh grains where diamond would blunten them but leave them in place. It isn't like razor sharpening will require you to flatten a deeply hollowed stone in a hurry.

I wonder if you can still find old televisions with a front of thick, very flat plate glass? Most I've seen lately are either flat-screen or have a bare, convex cathode ray tube.

Most of the old TVs had a cathode ray tube with a 25" spherical radius, so anything flat on them would have to have been another piece of glass in front of the tube. If that were plate glass, you'd be good to go.

I use my 325 DMT to lap all my hones, it works great.

I also really like the shapton stones, they are really good.

That's right. I've got mine, but I have no idea whether TVs so constructed are still around and being scrapped now. Besides being very flat it is thick and strong, with round corners and bluntened edges. I can even lap things (usually a messy business) in the shower. A fine fool anybody is going to look, mastering the straight razor and turning up in the casualty department over broken glass.

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Originally Posted by Blix

I paid for a setup of Shapton GS literally 5 minutes ago, 2-4-8-16, a DMT D8C and Shapton glass holder, got some great help from Glen choosing that setup. I think it will be allright... :)

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The choice to start with a 2K was a wise one as the stones are quite aggressive. A light touch will do you well. Glen steered you in the right direction indeed....

Can you provide more information on the Shapton Glass 2.000? I feel like I am missing something from the 1k white to the 4k grey.
The 1k white is kind of agressive, leaves even, but deep scratches (like almost any 1k, of course). The grey 4k is very slow and has a hard time polishing out all the deeper scratches.
How does the 2.000 react? Is it still agressive or does it leave a smoother surface?

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Originally Posted by Lesslemming

Can you provide more information on the Shapton Glass 2.000? I feel like I am missing something from the 1k white to the 4k grey.
The 1k white is kind of agressive, leaves even, but deep scratches (like almost any 1k, of course). The grey 4k is very slow and has a hard time polishing out all the deeper scratches.
How does the 2.000 react? Is it still agressive or does it leave a smoother surface?

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Don't fight it, just get it!

I've got 1,4,8,16,30K, all in white stones...so I don't quite know what you are referring to. My 4K GS reminds me a lot of of my 2K Naniwa SS. I've been considering a 2K GS for a few months and will have to get one now that you have brought it up:banghead: Thanks a lot!

I have a feeling that your gray stones are the "high carbon" stones & I don't have any experience with them.

Edit...a new 2K is now on it's way from SRD...I will tell you more when I get it.

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I have a feeling that your gray stones are the "high carbon" stones

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That is correct. The 4k HC is quite a good pre polisher, but a tad slow. I was experimenting with slurry on this one a bit recently


//EDIT:
I am an enabler :D