Thread: Pastes VS High Grit Hones

Hi There,

I recently honed my first razor (factory Dovo).

I used a Norton 4000/8000 grit stone - And have it at a stage where I can comfortably shave. It does tug a little when going ATG around the chin area - but that's more likely to be my shaving technique than the blade itself.

This brings me to my question.

From what I've read, the popular opinion is that the next stone should be a Naniwa 12k. But what follows after that? There's the option of pastes on balsa wood, felt, leather, etc. And then there's higher grit stones (such as the Shapton 16k).

I'm looking at making a purchase from the US - and figure I might as well buy what I need so as to save on multiple shipping fees.

So - should I get a Naniwa 12k? A Shapton 16k? Diamond sprays? CrO paste? The way I see it - if the pastes are going to achieve the same as a Shapton 16k - I'd rather go for a stone. By the time one purchases the diamond sprays at over $20 each, plus a strop for each, the hone becomes more affordable.

Thanks in Advance!

Aaron.

These are all common questions, but for every 10 responses you get, you'll probably get at least 12 opinions and none of them are likely to be wrong. A huge amount of this comes down to preference.

One piece of advice I got from Glen when I was buying hones at first, which has worked out well for me, is to buy all one type of hone, or a single 'system' at first.

For me, I bought a 1k, 4k, 8k and 16k shapton.

Since you already have the nortons, I know the naniwa 12k is a popular follow up to those.


As far as going beyond the 12-16k range, IME, just use pastes. The added gain from something like a 30k hone is very small, and the cost is exorbitant.

I've only use CrO paste, and I've been very happy with it. There's guys around here who have tried every paste under the sun with varying effects, and I'm sure they'll be chiming in soon.

Hey Aaron. You won't need a 12 & a 16k for a progression. They are pretty much interchangeable. Just pick one & follow with pastes of choice. Correctly used the diamond sprays will improve most finishing stones so they are my choice.

I have shaved directly off Naniwa 12k and Shapton 16k, and there's not much of a difference, you could pick either really. Both can feel a little harsh, so that's where a CroCx pasted strop does wonders for smoothening things out.

Thanks to everyone

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Hey Aaron. You won't need a 12 & a 16k for a progression. They are pretty much interchangeable. Just pick one & follow with pastes of choice. Correctly used the diamond sprays will improve most finishing stones so they are my choice.

Oz - specifically, what grade sprays do you use? Do I need separate strops for each? Or would a paddle be better?

There's such a large range of stuff out there... I'd like to get what I 'need' to e able to produce the best possible blade at home.

Cheers,

Aaron.

Originally Posted by austy

Oz - specifically, what grade sprays do you use? Do I need separate strops for each? Or would a paddle be better?

Atm, I'm using the SRD 0.5 micron diamond spray on felt sometimes followed by jewellers rouge on felt. My preference is for a paddle & yes you need separate medium to avoid cross contamination.

Buy the Naniwa 12K. Don't look back, reconsider, imagine something else will work better, fall in love with Eschers, Nakayamas, etc. because they are romantic, rare, exotic; mess with diamond, crox, graphite, 0.1 emerald or pixie dust on linen, pressed flax or whatever else is out there.

Buy the 12K and never, NEVER look back.

Originally Posted by austy

....snip...
Oz - specifically, what grade sprays do you use? Do I need separate strops for each? Or would a paddle be better?
....snip...
Aaron.

If someone answered this I missed it.

When pasting a strop (hanging strop or paddle strop) you can
switch to a coarser spray but not the other way around.
The abrasive in the spray embeds itself into the fabric of
the strop and is all but impossible to remove.

A paddle strop seems to be easier to learn and is easy to
store in many shared shave dens. The modular paddle strop
lets you tinker because you get more than two surfaces.
The image of a hanging strop draws most of us to a
hanging strop eventually for the coolness factor alone.

The most common situation is to have two unpasted
strop surfaces: canvas and leather. This will be used
each day prior to shaving. The canvas can be skipped
but has value in that it cleans the razor of any residual
lather and any micro corrosion that may have accumulated
over night.

Using a pasted a fine abrasive on an old strop, canvas, balsa or felt
has two useful contexts. After honing and when a razor begins
to tug (minor touch up). After honing a pasted strop (balsa, leather, canvas)
does two things. One of which is to pull straight or remove minor
burrs and then polish the bevel of the edge for smoothness. This smoothness
and polishing step is important for comfort. An edge needs to
snip whiskers but not dig into skin -- a difficult balancing act.

Of interest all strops collect minor bits of ultra fine steel that
oxidizes and over time develop the ability to polish a razor.
This is why the old well cared for well used strop seems
so much better than a fresh new one.

One of us (Glen) did an experiment with submicron pasted strops
on a single razor and found that the edge did not suffer from excessive
abrasion. What I took away from his many month experiment
was that I could run a razor over a submicron pasted strop
every Saturday to my hearts content and my razor will not suffer
from it and neither will the shave. At some point a visit
to a hone will be needed but not quickly.

So two clean strop surfaces for day in day out stropping... and
paste the others beginning with 0.25 or 0.5 micron
stuff and you will be fine. If you want more aggressive pastes
you can switch... just cannot go back.

If it was me i would get the 12k stone or the 16k and most likely both,i've recently done a fair bit of experimenting with pastes and while handy for a quick touch up they wont replace a higher grit stone,i also played with 1,0.5,0,25 and 0.1 micron pastes before and after my black arkansas, they made the blade extremely sharp with the 0.25 and 0.1 making the edge unbelievable but the edges never lasted very long compared to just finishing on the stone,a bit more patience with the stone and i can get very close to the same degree of sharpness with a much more durable edge so yeah i've given up on pastes

Just to throw another opinion into the mix, I'd go for a natural finisher like a coticule or thuringian.

I personally prefer natural stones as finishers over synthetics or pastes. I think they leave a much smoother edge.

Coticules or thuringians can be had relatively cheaply (c.£50) and leave a really good edge, especially the thuringians.