I'm seeing some stones being referred to as a hybrid coti? What is different about them?
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I'm seeing some stones being referred to as a hybrid coti? What is different about them?
If they are talking about a hybrid, and not a combo, they are generally referring to a Les Latneues coticule. The hybrid layer is between the two surfaces of the Les Latneues. From what I'm reading, it is suppose to be some pretty good stuff, the hybrid layer. I just acquired my first coticule last week. It was advertised as a Les Latneues, but I'm thinking it is a La Dressante with a hybrid layer. Bart at coticule.be is the coticule expert there - knows his stuff.
Thanks. Good stuff on bart's site.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybyers
it runs on the electric motor until the bevel is set then switches to the gas motor for the finishing :roflmao
I imagine it would be a slow cutter?Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
'Hybrid' Coticules refer to ones that have this weird marbled gray and yellow backing instead of the normal BBW backing. These are typically found in the Les Latneuses layer, though some have emerged from other layers. It is extremely hard (lapping this side is a PITA) and will offer a different honing regime than the yellow part. Don't want to set bevels on it and in general is slow all around, BUT when used as a finisher only it leaves a very smooth edge. In general I find most coticule edges indistinguishable from each other, but razors finished on the hybrid layer I can generally tell take a smoother edge.
Is it strange that after 2000 years or more of use in sharpening this is the first I've ever heard of these kinds of coticules? Or have I just not been paying attention?
James.
BUT WHAT ACTUALLY IS IT?
I can not seem to get a clear answer anywhere. Yes, I appreciate it is grey and yellow marbled and in lieu of BBW, but what is its geological composition?
It is a hybrid of coticule and ????????
I wouldn't worry about it. Being more than 2000 years old, you would naturally have grown weary long ago of keeping up with all these newfangled honesQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Actually, the hybrid is not a mix of yellow coticule and BBW. It exists between two layers of yellow coticule and is a yellow/brown marble mixture. I don't know the physical makeup; I'm sure somebody else can chime in on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio
Here are some photos of a hybrid:
http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/820.html
One begins to wonder if this hybrid layer might be an amalgam of some type of resin and the barrels and barrels of dried coticule sludge the the finishers have accumlated over the years, particularly since no "eureka" statement has come forth saying that a new rock, a geological marvel, has just been discovered by spelunkers in Belgium.
It rubs the lotion on it's skin, It does this whenever it's told, or it get's the hose again.
:rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by zib
On mine, it's slow, but seems to offer a slightly sharper edge than the regular side. I'm experimenting w/ it as a prepolisher before my new Oozuku.
Glen beat me to it.
Mine is pretty, that's about it. If it wasn't for the recent value hike I would probably have used it in a fountain so it was always wet.
Man, if I were better with paint shop I would over lay a prius with my hybrid and reshape it a little.
Depends on the layer. La Petite Prius is slower than Le Grosse Lexus. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jcsixx
It uses a battery for touchups, so that you only use fossil fuel when you're really setting bevels.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcsixx
That way you have less impact on the environment.
;)
It would be an interesting experiment:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
capture all the slurry that is created when cutting up coticules and blue stones, let it dry out and mix it with norton style resin.
The Hybrid side is usually harder than the other side and a lot slower but polishes fine.
Harder is an understatement. I just ordered another one from Jarrod to see how it works. The first one is not totally exposed, only a small section is exposed on top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disburden
I have, in my posession, a sample of a stone owned by a Barber who retired in 1980 that has the same "hybrid" (whatever its geological composition may be) layer showing, but it's glued to BBW. It is a very nice stone. That strata isn't exactly new. It was named by the miners over 100 years ago. Les Latneuses is a plural word, and the strata is named that because it has two coticule veins sandwiching whatever the "hybrid" layer is. Like I said, I had one show up at my door last week mined decades ago.
Would love to see it. Pictures.
The first picture shows my les latneuses side by side with the "vintage" one. The last two are of only the "vintage" one. The lateral walls show the "hybrid" layer, but it's much easier to see in person.
Attachment 78627Attachment 78625Attachment 78626
Which one did you get? I picked up #6 from the first batch last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybyers
Rick
Here is my coticule. This one has been around the various forums; when I got it and lapped it, the hybrid layer was exposed (lower edge).
Attachment 78639
It was advertised as a Les Latneuses, but it appears more like a La Dressante. You can see the various hybrid layers from the sideview.
Attachment 78641
My new hybrid is in the mail.
I scored with #5.Quote:
Originally Posted by PensacolaTiger
So you're the "lucky dude". Congratulations!Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybyers
I got the size 7... :)
I cannot imagine any geological strata is "new" lol! I was more wondering what has happened in recent times to make these things suddenly so desireable?Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondesi
James.
Likely the same thing that happened to the completely disregarded Filarmonica EPBD after it was discontinued. An enthusiastic endorsement by someone respected brought attention to it. At least the price of these stones hasn't hit the stratosphere :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
At least not yet...
Yes. Give it time. Supply and demand will out! Look at Okudo stones...
But that does raise the question: has anyone respected done a head to head of these to other stones? There's been a lot of comparison in this thread of the hybrid to the "standard" coticule. What about the hybrid to other natural stones? Does anyone know?
James.
Well I'm not a "respected one", but I will sure compare the hybrid side to a LPB coti, a LGB coti, Ozuku Asagi and more... :)
The marbled LL side is said to give a very keen coti edge being very hard.
Blix,
The "hybrid" side of a LL is not significantly better, or give any more of a keen edge than others. I've had more than my share. They work, like the other stratas. I honed a razor on a La Petite Blanche for someone else and was complimented on how I can "squeeze" out that last bit of keenness better than he's been able to on any of his. I've seen that comment before (that LLs left keener edges), and I don't know many people who will buy it after thorough examination.
The fact of the matter is that if you have a coticule that is decent (and you really know how to use it well), you can get a very keen, very smooth edge... just like you can off other naturals.
Jimbo, I've compared several coticules to numerous hones (natural and synthetic). I've noticed differences, but nothing that makes any of the alternatives pale in comparison. What I have learned after spending way more money than I'm proud of is that all of them yield very, very similar results when maxed out, the difference is in the ease in which that stage is reached. I'm not sure that I'm respected enough, but there's my experience :rofl2:
Remember too that many "respected" members completely discount the vast majority of coticules' ability to finish an edge as well as other natural stones, so whatever we hear will have to be framed with that frame of reference :)
Thank you for the great info. My LL was shipped yesterday, so I couldn't possibly know yet :)Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondesi
But after working really hard to learn my Shaptons GS's I have learned that I can get quite smooth edges off a system considered fast and "harsh" if I do it right. To the point I have really questioned my HAD! :) But it's all fun. I can only learn by trying different stones, as long as I don't drink the internet Kool-Aid on everything ;)
I got my Hybrid in this morning. It was grouped with the Les Latneuses, but is appears to be a La Grosse Blanche. It has thin brown lines running through it and has dots on the surface; they look like pores but the surface it smooth. The top layer was brown until I lapped it. I'm going to put it out in the sun to confirm LGB. You can see some of the browning on the edge in the first picture. The top layer slurries easily and is creamy; the hybrid layer gives off very, very little slurry, even with a DMT. I'll let you know how it finishes.
Attachment 78831
Attachment 78830
Does the hybrid side do anything or is just a pretty backing?
It's technically not a back; it is the middle between two layers of Les Latneuses. It is definitely hard and is said to produced a nice finish. I'm going to work one of my razors and let you know how it handles.
do a full dilucot method, and that way you will no what its capable of. the slurry will be raized but mainlyb from slurry stone, either way it wil work well with the surface, its on. The may all differ, but mine does a geat job. . both sides work well on mine, leaving typical coticule edge ..
I just rehoned 4 blades last night while using the hybrid side. I prefer the hybrid side myself. It leaves a very keen edge that is supremely mellow. I too do a full dilucot on the hybrid side. I have a veinette that i rub on the hybrid to create a slurry and go from there.
This thread reminds me of a Sterophile review of audio cables/ect. below is a typical copy/paste (the first one I googled) it sounds remarkably like this thread.. :)
quote"First, 20 years ago, I so deeply fell in love with the sound of my original Koetsu Urushi cartridge that I immediately bought a second one. Although I've since heard many other cartridges that have impressed me, I've never had any desire to abandon the Koetsus. Thanks to several subsequent rebuilds by the Expert Stylus and Cartridge Company (footnote 1), my Urushis continue to hold court in my reference system.
I am also biased toward the cables made by Music Interface Technologies (MIT). In 1982, I heard MIT founder Bruce Brisson's first design for Monster Cable " yada yada yada .....
but the question is why do I want a hybrid now... :)
