Arkansas stones for honing?

[Curnutte]

I have Washita, Soft Arkansas, and Hard Arkansas stones that I use to sharpen my woodworking chisels. Would they be suitable for honing my razors? I am careful to have them dressed once a year or so to be sure they are absolutely flat. Also, I have used them with honing oil. If they are suitable for my razors, should I continue to use them with oil? I'm not a newbie at honing my chisels and I get very good edges with these stones. But I'm willing to get other stones for my razors if you think I need to.
Thanks,
Bill

[hendersr]

I have a hard black arkansas that i have tried to hone razors with and it hasnt been very successful. My understanding is that its a bit of a hit and miss affair.

[JimmyHAD]

Hi Bill, Welcome to SRP. I have some Arkies that I use for pocket knives, including a Washita, a soft and a hard Arkansas. I've not tried mine on razors since I have waterstones which most find preferable of straight razors. There have been some members who reported getting decent, even good results, using Arkansas stones to hone their razors but not many. Some may chime in after awhile. The SRP Wiki has hone comparisons, and article called 'Which Hone Do I Need' among other info. Take a look at that here if you want some quick info.

[DaveW]

I haven't used surgical black or hard translucent, but I have a couple of translucents.

If they are freshly lapped, they will be too coarse for a razor. You want them to settle in on the surface and be clean and worn - novaculite breaks down or wears off (whatever it does to cut less aggressively) pretty quickly. There is a HUGE difference between a fresh stone and one with wear, like maybe a factor of 3 or 4 in fineness.

I don't get good results with my norton HTA, but by the looks of it, I don't think it's a cut piece of natural stone. I do have a natural cut piece of stone that's at least twice as fine (also translucent) that I'm sure I could shave with fine, especially if I followed the shave with any powder of any type (i generally go straight from hone to plain leather with no other molestation to the edge).

I know of someone who says they've shaved 40+ years with a straight razor and they use a hard black ark (that they intentionally never lap, and it has settled into a very fine slow cutting stone, I'd guess) and a horse butt strop and nothing else.

In general, there are so many other fine stones out there that have a much finer grit to start off with that I don't think it's worth the trouble. I probably wouldn't fiddle with a soft or hard white non-translucent stone, they're too coarse. I'm sure with enough tinkering you could figure something out, but you could get a better edge off of a better stone a minute later with a lot less effort.

[MinATX]

There is a famous woodworker who puts diamond paste on his black arkansas when he wants to put a super sharp edge on his chisels.
I haven't tried it myself but it's something to think about if you don't want to invest in new stones.
Or get a Norton combo stone. I love my Nortons.

[WJF]

Hello Bill and welcome to SRP,

There are many places here on SRP to learn about different hones and stones. Take your time and check them all out.

There are many folks here that hone all the time and are experts on hones and honing. I will jump in here because your question was about Arkansas stones and that is primarily what I use. I do not hone for anyone else so I have no feedback but my own experience and I happen to get by fine with a surgical black Arkansas. Keep in mind that all natural stones can and will vary in many ways. The surgical black is much harder and finer than the Washita or Hard Arkansas and I use mine for razors only.

My stone was flat when I received it and I just scrubbed it with soap and water and used water on it from then on. I use wet-or-dry paper (1000 and 1500) on granite to set bevels and do repair work. I suppose your other Arkies would work fine for that. Now I must say here that I purchased a combo Coticle/BBW slurry stone and I will sometimes use that to make a slurry on the sbA and it works very well for honing. I start with a clean stone and make a coticle slurry and hone until the slurry begins to turn gray and then dilute with more water until the edge looks right under magnification. I then clean the stone and use water only. The edges usually polish up very well. I know that I might come under fire here, but sometimes I use the stone dry for touch-up. I always scrub with soap and water to clean it afterwards. I lap the stone on the granite with wet-or-dry paper, but so far it has not been dished or cupped so lapping was just a cursory swipe or two to make sure.

As I said before I have no other feedback but my own face and it is very happy with the edges that I get. Of course I also strop with linen and leather before I shave. Good luck.

Bill

[smgunn]

HI, Bill
I have not used a Washita nor a Soft Arkansas on a razor. I have a few Norton Translucent & Surgical Black Arkansas that I've used quite a bit. They are very capable hones for straights, though slow as can be. The ones I have vary a bit from each other but all of them will put an extremely fine shaving edge on a razor if you have the patience. I have used them with water, lather, dawn, and honing oil but prefer sewing machine oil for my Arkansas. They are so slow that I would hate to imagine going through a progression from Soft to Translucent as they are just so slow, especially with the light pressure used on straights.

FWIW: If you are just starting to hone straight razors I think it would be much easier to start out with the water stones more commonly used here. If/when you have any questions or problems with using the waterstones, there are so many great people here with so much knowledge that can quickly help you out. That's how I started out about a year ago and It wasn't long before I was getting nice shaves from my own honing. I've come to prefer the coticule now but I think that I would have struggled much more if I had started out with just that. although that's what worked for me YMMV.
Good Luck
Sean

[Curnutte]

Wow, I wasn't expecting so much information so quickly. Thanks for all the replies and helpful advice! You guys must all hang out here all the time. ;-) There is a lot of information here to digest. I have one Dovo razor that needs honing. I was going to send it in and have it done professionally but I think I may try my hand. It's been quite a while since I had my Arkansas stones lapped, so they are pretty darn smooth. They are also probably 15 years old and weren't cheap when I got them, so I'm sure they are natural stone. I think I may try this Dovo on them and see what happens. If I can't get a good edge myself, I can still send it in. If I don't get good results with my Arks, I'll buy some of the water stones that several of you have mentioned. I have 4 other razors that are still shaving great, so I have time to mess with this one. I'll keep you posted on how it works.

Thanks a million,
Bill

[Piet]

A while ago I bought a vintage Soft Arkansas by mistake and recently I tried to hone a razor on it after having set a bevel with a Chosera 1k. It seemed to improve the edge but left a couple microchips. I'm sure that won't happen with all coarse Arkansas stones but be aware it's something that can happen.

[Gamma]

True hard, black, and translucent Arkansas stones are all graded to have a specific gravity of 2.75 or better. Not every single stone gets tested - so there's always wiggle room and variances. Those stones have the most dense abrasive particle composition, so they're the finest of all the Arks and they can be spectacular finishers.
Right behind them are the softer 'hard' Arks and they are prededed by 'soft' Arks, Washitas have the least dense abrasive particle count and are therefore the most 'coarse'.
I'm not entirely certain - but I think certain Hindostan hones (also novaculite) fall in the Washita-Soft Ark range. I haven't really gotten into the sample on my desk right now but it seems to be finer than I would have thought.
My best finishers are my black and translucent Arks - yes they are slow but that's fine by me. The edge seems to last and it's very very smooth.
I've read where people claim to have set bevels on hard Arks...I don't know that I'd have the patience for that.
I lap all of my Arks to 1.2k. and I hone on them with water with a tinge of dish soap. Oil is reported to improve the edge by some - but not by me. I think water with soap works just as well.
The tops can glaze up, especially on a translucent. But - that's usually from heavy blades.. I haven't seen that happen with razors. It's important to keep the top smooth, but glazing prevents the stone from working at 100%.
Once the razor's bevel is set correctly - progressing from soft to hard to black/translucent brings up a sweet edge.
Slow - yes. But the edge is worth the wait and effort IMO.
One more thing - they are unforgiving stones - tip the spine up just once, even a teeny teeny bit, and a lot of hard work can be lost. For me this isn't an issue - as long as I'm focused and not trying to just 'get it done' - I'm fine.