Shapton GS and Naniwa SS - Feedback/Feel, Keenness, Smoothness and Consistency

As a newbie to straight razor shaving, the time is approaching to start learning the art of honing. After reading the WIKI and some posts, I've narrowed my starting point choices to the Shapton Ceramic on Glass (not the high carbon version) and the Naniwa Super Stones. the goal is to obtain a basic, but complete setup, for each manufacturer; one stone to cover the four basic grit ranges from bevel setting to finishing and the lapping stone. This would be the 1K-4K-8K-16K and DGLP for Shapton and the 2K-5K-8K-12K plus Naniwa Lapping Plate for the Naniwa system. This is probably just the starting point, as I will probably try things like felt and paste, or a natural stone to increase the polish

So I'm looking for input regarding their qualities of feedback, keenness, smoothness and consistency. I realized that my results are going to vary from the experienced honesters/Honemeisters reading, but all opinions are welcome. I'm sure each one has strengths and weaknesses and I an trying to get a feel for each set so to pick what I believe will be the best set for me, then adjusting from the set to tweak to my personal preference.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

I have a full Shapton System and I'm biased towards them, I've only done 3-4 razors on the Naniwas.
Now both system offers great shaves, the results off the 12k Naniwa didn't feel much different from the Shapton 16k, both great keen edges. Now since I'm used to the Shaptons, they offer me the feedback I'm used to, the Naniwas felt softer and don't cut as fast.

Btw, if you end up with Naniwas, do not buy the Naniwa lapping plate, you want a DMT D8C instead. And you don't really need the Shapton DGLP , the DMT rock on the Shaptons as well...

I echo Blix's comment on the DMT for lapping your stones. I have Shapton GS's and Naniwa SS's. I use the Shapton GS's almost exclusively. The Shapton's are the "latest & greatest". YOU WILL NOT GO WRONG WITH EITHER SET. All you will hear from this point is personal preferences, neither set is any better than the other. I would like to recommend one change no matter whatever system you choose: Naniwa Chosera 1K for bevel setting.

I'm going to throw some fuel on this and say that a Chosera 1K is not needed and can be replaced by a a Shapton Pro 1500, a Shapton GS 500 or GS 1K.

If it was me making the purchase, I'd go with the Shaptons--most likely the Pros, but the GS are also nice.

I have the Naniwa SS 1-3-8-12K and I get very good results from them, the only thing I would like is a faster bevel setter like the Chosera 1K, the SS 1K is a good stone, but when I sit down to hone I often do 3-4 razors at once and a faster stone would be nice sometimes.
One thing about the Naniwas is that they tend to clog quite fast so you have to clean them quite often.
I've also honed a handfull of razors on Blix's shaptons, which IMHO are great stones, the feedback is quite different than the SS, but like Blix I don't feel much difference between the SS 12K and GS 16K.
You will not go wrong with either, they are both great sets, but the Shaptons cost a little more and the feedback of them makes them more ore less fool proof.

Thanks everyone, lots of good info here.

I just hope that anyone making a recommendation to the OP has time & experience with the stones mentioned before they make a recommendation. Otherwise....how valid would the post be?

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

I just hope that anyone making a recommendation to the OP has time & experience with the stones mentioned before they make a recommendation. Otherwise....how valid would the post be?

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Indeed a very good point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

YOU WILL NOT GO WRONG WITH EITHER SET.

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:) Bingo !!!

Oh BTW I do have just a bit of experience with both LOL

I have to agree with Shooter through if you are talking about spending real money on either set, a dedicated bevel setter is a huge plus and nothing that I have tested yet beats a Chosera 1k... I have tested quite a few of them too hehehe I like the 1k stones...

As to which set, the only difference that is tangible is the feedback from the stones, the Naniwas are a tiny bit easier to use on problem razors that tend to chip, but the Shaptons might as well throw a huge red flag in the air when it is time to change stones....

Flip a Coin :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

:)
Flip a Coin :p

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more like check your bank account:rofl2:

no kidding Supernas. I realize that the Shaptons are between 1.3 and 1.5 times the cost of Naniwa SS (approximately, and depends on where, what set pricey you can fined etc), but the big price influence is the lapping plate and there are far less expensive alternatives to the DGLP (ie. the D8 course grit) Sadly, I could pick up a complete range of Naniwas almost half as much as the 4-step Shapton setup....:(

But I was looking for input regarding the characteristics of the stones before weighing cost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by str8rzr

no kidding Supernas. I realize that the Shaptons are between 1.3 and 1.5 times the cost of Naniwa SS (approximately, and depends on where, what set pricey you can fined etc), but the big price influence is the lapping plate and there are far less expensive alternatives to the DGLP (ie. the D8 course grit) Sadly, I could pick up a complete range of Naniwas almost half as much as the 4-step Shapton setup....:(

But I was looking for input regarding the characteristics of the stones before weighing cost.

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Prices

Naniwa SS
1
3
8
12
----
$206.96


Shapton GS
1
4
8
16
----
$361.00

Plus the DMT 325 lapping plate because it works for either one $46.99


Prices from SRD today, price wise the Naniwa SS are a steal of a deal against any set up you can think of...

Even against a bargain deal

Norton 220/1, 4/8 and a Chinese PHIG = $171.99


This is one reason many of us that have used them tell people to buy them :) the price is great and the performance is excellent

edit: the prices reflect the full Naniwas the deal can get better with the combo pacs

To me, the biggest difference remains in the feel of the the stones. The Naniwa SS stones have a very nice but softer feel to them. I have said since I first tested them, that they feel like they were made for straight razors. The Shapton Glass stones on the other hand, because of their ceramic nature simply feel a little harder, but still have very nice feedback. I like the Shapton Carbon Glass stones too, although not available in all grits and they may have a tad more feedback than the regular glass stones. From a results standpoint, I have no preference with either of these. I have no problems with any razors doing anything but getting sharp from using them. I have probably done close to 10 thousand razors with each of these hone sets and would continue to recommend their use. Both are very reliable and consistent.

On lapping plates, I do love the GDLP, but because of the expense, the DMT works well on all my hones including the Nortons and Naturals.

I have tried too test most stones that have ever been discussed here at SRP and other forums over the years and there are a lot of stones that CAN get a razor shaving sharp. Some easier and more consistent than others. It will boil down to what you find you can get the best results from and the only way to find that out is to hone as much as you can to build up your knowledge base if that is what you're after.

Have fun.

Yes, the price is a difference, but the shaptons are harder, a little faster, they last longer. If you are planning using them for more than a couple of times, there is no actual price difference. If I were you with the experience I have now I would buy a king 1k one yellow lake and a C12k. 100$ all together and they will last. But not for inexperienced users. :gl:

Thanks to everyone. I think I finally have a handle on the characteristics of each stone. I just have to determine which I like better and take the plunge...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lynn

To me, the biggest difference remains in the feel of the the stones. The Naniwa SS stones have a very nice but softer feel to them. I have said since I first tested them, that they feel like they were made for straight razors. The Shapton Glass stones on the other hand, because of their ceramic nature simply feel a little harder, but still have very nice feedback. I like the Shapton Carbon Glass stones too, although not available in all grits and they may have a tad more feedback than the regular glass stones. From a results standpoint, I have no preference with either of these. I have no problems with any razors doing anything but getting sharp from using them. I have probably done close to 10 thousand razors with each of these hone sets and would continue to recommend their use. Both are very reliable and consistent.

On lapping plates, I do love the GDLP, but because of the expense, the DMT works well on all my hones including the Nortons and Naturals.

I have tried too test most stones that have ever been discussed here at SRP and other forums over the years and there are a lot of stones that CAN get a razor shaving sharp. Some easier and more consistent than others. It will boil down to what you find you can get the best results from and the only way to find that out is to hone as much as you can to build up your knowledge base if that is what you're after.

Have fun.

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Lynn!
How long does the shapton GS last? Have you worn out any stone of the GS set?

In case anyone was wondering, I've decided to invest in the Shaptons, with the Shapton accessories. (1K 4K 8K 16K, holder, DGLP).

Why? I picked the Shaptons over the Naniwa for the fact that I think I would prefer the harder feel, more aggressive cutting action, the longer life, and more obvious feedback of when to continue to the next grit.

After mastery of the 4-stone progression tested by shaving with my work, I would like to see what felt/pastes have to offer for finishing. But If true HAD kicks in, I might explore natural stones for finishing, and other possibilities for bevel setting, but that is very far into the journey. I do, after all, want this to be fun!

Thanks for all the feedback and great tips.

Happy Holidays Everyone!
Chris

Only thing I can say is I HATE THE NANIWA SS 800! It's a muddy
stone.

Sharpman