Thread: Shapton GS prices increased (?)

Originally Posted by PA23-250

Are you going from your 15k (or is it 12k Japanese) to your Jnats? How would you say it compares to the 16k GS? Also, how have you found the 1k pro for bevels, compared to the 1k Chosera if you've used it?

Yes, 12k to Jnats & have also jumped from 5k to Jnat's. Also been using 5k to 12k with no 8k pro. The 12k is plenty fast to make the jump. Don't have the 16kGS only 8kGS. Used to use Suita to Asagi after 8k GS.
1k pro is a killer on stainless or tough carbon razors for bevel set but I usually use the 1.5k on edges that don't need a lot of heavy lifting. For badly pitted & chipped bevels I may even start at the 320grit & always go to 1k from there.
Never bought a Chocera 1k. Tho I was curious, just never felt the need. I only have experience with King 800 &1200 & Shapton 1kGS & Kasumi 1k to compare but as much as I liked the GS, they just sit neglected atm. The 1k J pro is faster & holds it's flatness better than any of the 1k's I've used.

I don't have the 1k pro, but I use the 1k Chosera, and 2k pro a lot, and both are great. I don't have any intention to buy another 1k, but the 320 pro IS tempting. I don't like to use diamond hones for razors, I think I will order one in the near future.

Originally Posted by PA23-250

Are you going from your 15k (or is it 12k Japanese) to your Jnats? How would you say it compares to the 16k GS? Also, how have you found the 1k pro for bevels, compared to the 1k Chosera if you've used it?

I can't tell who this was to. I have gobs of finish stones, I can't really defend why - curiosity.

In terms of practical razor sharpening, I'd say no difference in results for 15k pro vs. 16k glass. Both of them will load a little bit in use, and both work best with the surface refreshed fairly often (which is, I think the case for all shaptons, even the softer low grit glasstones - which are noticeably softer in woodworking, but will still load some with a razor and not release grit that fast - you just don't get enough pressure with razors to get the stones to release stuff.

Some folks might prefer the feel of the 16k glassstone, it could be a tad less sticky than the pro (at least with woodworking tools, it feels like that might be the case), but we are talking about 99 vs 100 in my mind, especially when you start comparing the two to other brands of stones.

I go straight from whatever the polisher is - shapton 15k, chosera 10k, sigma 13k to an antique razor hone that I got from alex (that is incredibly fine) instead of using chromium oxide or anything like that - the shave is more comfortable. Any of those brands of synthetics will easily take a chromium oxide finish to soften the edge and work well without any natural stone intervention. It's just easier for me to stay clean in the upstairs bathroom and keep things clean with a small natural japanese barbers hone.

I don't ever actually use the pro 1k unless i buy a used razor on ebay, so it's been fine for me, as has a bester of similar grit (the bester feels nicer). The key to using the hard stones with a pleasant feel is to refresh the surface peridically with a diamond hone, even when they're not out of flat. They have a better feel like that and cut faster. I like to keep my razors away from powdered and pasted strops and such so that the edge geometry doesn't change and so that a refresher on only the finest stones always keeps them in shape - i've not taken a shaver below any of the above finish stones once it's in shaving shape.

I can't find a great big practical difference for the shaver (as opposed to the habitual razor restorer) in any stones, natural, synthetic (clay, resin, magnesia, ..). Hopefully, the razor only needs to get to that initial point of restoration once, and can be maintained without any serious stoning indefinitely. It takes little more time on a decent razor for me to use all natural stones from the pre-polish up, and I can't tell a difference in the edge in daily shaving after the barber hone hits them.

Exellent explanation on the Pro 15k vs GS 16k. I found the same thing for me, as I have both, too. The GS 16k has the nicer feel, bot I find that for the GS in generall compared to the Pro.
So this comes down to personal preference. I did find one difference though. The polish. If the pre polish on the 8k stage is almost to the point of perfect, with minimum uniform scratches
the Pro 12k/15k will give an amazing polish with incredible clarity. Under the microscope you will look at a complete mirror. The GS 16 tends to leave some uniform scratch marks,
wich kind of is the story with the GS. Still I prefer the GS

Originally Posted by Kingfish

For me the Chosera is miles ahead of the 1K pro. The 2K on the other hand is very sweet..

Are yours the Jp version or the US/Export version? I think I remember reading they're slightly different.

Lesslemming: on the subject of polish before the 12/15k, would you say that the pro 5k gives roughly the same level of refinement as the Norton 8k or would it be a bit too coarse to give a mirror on the 12? When the time comes to buy, I'd like something faster than the Norton for 8k & below & wouldn't mind saving a bit of money on the pros, but if it takes a lot of extra work to get the edge later on, it might be easier to go for the GS instead. I know So recommends them before the natural finisher, so I certainly wouldn't go wrong with them, but I am still very curious about the pros.

Dave
Really good explination above. I was lucky enough to pick up the Shapton 2k mint green Pro when I was in Japan in March, and I really like it. It is super fast and provides a slight slurry even with razor work but especially with tools including kanna blades. I use if for bevel setting my razors and it has never failed me.

I have owned the 30k glass stone for a number of years, they are an amazing piece of technology. I still have 4mm left on it though because my go to stones are all Jnats in that grit range and because of the GS glazing issues. The issue of the high grit GS problems with glazing have been on the burner since early on, and were first talked about on the woodworking forums. As you well know the traditional laminated kanna plane blade is made up of 90% soft iron, that this has been found to really plug up the works and glaze. Shapton set the bar high with the creation of the 30k stone that is for sure. Alx

Alex, I have heard other people say they like the 2k shapton, too, but I have never tried one.

I agree completely about the 30k stone. It is incredibly uniform and very fine while still being very aggressive as long as it's not allowed to load. As soon as it loads, that uniformity goes away. It can be mitigated with water management, touch and refreshing the surface, but a nice natural stone doesn't present the same issues in terms of finishing, and the edge is a lot more comfortable, anyway.

A friend and I played with his 30k stone to try with western woodworking tools to figure out what practicality it had vs. stopping at the 16k glasstone or the 15k pro, and we couldn't see a difference on the surface of the wood. That's obviously entirely different than shaving. I liked the 30k for what it is, but if I were looking to spend that kind of money on another stone (especially for razors), I would be browsing your inventory instead - a comfortable shave of the same fineness would be practically guaranteed.

That soft iron - The ogata swedish I got from you has it - as does another inukubi plane (which usually come with a laser thin lamination) that I purchased for a song from someone stateside who decided they didn't like it. Both of those irons invite sharpening, the kamaji is so compliant on the stones, coming off on the shaptons like strips of jetliner tire rubber on a runway, and abrading fabulously on natural stones to finish. They are an absolute pleasure. I have some other irons that have wrought backing that just isn't as compliant, and while they are good irons, they don't get used as much. It's a shame there isn't a corresponding similar tactile feel in sharpening razors.

Dave I hear where you are coming from, and some users here may have had some of the same issues honing their Nihon Kamisori razors which also have a laminated carbon steel/soft iron (hagane/jigane) configuration loading up the 30k Shapton or other fine grit synthetics. Swarf load in razor honing might be a problem or an issue if you are particular details, but because the surface area on an average kamisori toishi is smaller the impacts of swarf is very similar to that with tools. I have a 5k pale yellow Suehiro that I have replaced over and over again without the blink of an eye when needed because it works so well, but it does load from razors. Sharpening really is a balancing act and we all learn to compromise. Alx