hi there fellas, i recently purchased this coti online. vintage so it seems.visited the coticule vault but came accross none that had a similar layering..id appreciate any feedback. thanks erikAttachment 93444Attachment 93445Attachment 93446
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hi there fellas, i recently purchased this coti online. vintage so it seems.visited the coticule vault but came accross none that had a similar layering..id appreciate any feedback. thanks erikAttachment 93444Attachment 93445Attachment 93446
Looks like the varicose vein to me but I could be wrong ? :thinking:
suffers from some thrombosis:)
Looks to me like the bbw bleeding in the coticule part of it, i dont think its any special vein.
Kidding aside, there may be someone who can look at it and tell you. OTOH, as I read a Belgian and coticule expert post, the veins you see identified in forum posts are from the current Ardennes mine. They have names they have given to veins based on the area of the mine the stones were harvested from. The old, now defunct mines, where the vintage coticules came from, had their own pet names for areas within their mines. These are probably lost to history.
hey there jimmy..I've seen a few of your coticules in other threads..noticed any difference between older and newer hones being mined? and another Q.. would you consider hardness determines finishing quality?
Very true Jimmy.
Geologically speaking the rock formations have names to them but when they start mining they do drill cores and analyze the minerals and map out the extent of the deposits they are interested in. The name of the mine and the veins are given names as part of the mapping process. They could be numbers or names but they aren't official, just local names. You won't find them on any geological map. Just the mine diagrams in the mine office will have that info. Depending on the mine the diagrams may one day wind up in a museum or become lost to time.
I have had some older, vintage, that I liked some I didn't like so much. The same can be said of newer ones IME. Seems to me that softer cuts faster. I've got a vintage natural with a greenish hue that is super hard. I found that using a light slurry to polish and dilute as I go gave me a real nice edge. The razor already sharp when I went to it. I've got one old Droescher natural that is the color of an egg shell and is a fast cutter yet a fine finisher.
Pinkish hues or speckles seem to me to go with a faster cutter also. Some of the cotis I have, yellow/blue naturals take some figuring out. Recently got a Les Lat from Gary in UK that I'm really glad I picked up. Getting very good results. Another thing I learned is to be patient with a stone and try to figure it out before jumping to the conclusion that it isn't any good. I have a La Veinette from Ardennes that I didn't like in the beginning but as I got to know it I found it to be a kick azz stone.
You can not classify old coticule hones by veine. The new system is for currently mined ones only.
Good Stuff!. I've yet to try that newer (old hone) one on its way. I also have two other coticules I'm currently using. One hard, one rather soft..I'm still learning how to use this softer stone, from tss..it makes lots of (soapy) slurry but the slurry doesn't really seem to cut as fast as the harder hone does, takes a while for it to turn grey.
the harder stone kicks butt, smoother shaves and a bit easier to learn then this other one.
i'll try and post pics of those later so I can have you guess again. my girl lost the camera's usb:shrug:..
Maybe compare some characteristics from these not soo good pictures to something others might recognize from known veins Dis?
You can certainly try, nothing wrong with that. The problem with idenifying old coticules is those areas of the mine have long been depleted and closed off from public access. The new stuff is from the other side of the mines and have different characteristics and appearances.
is it the left internal illiac?
hey Dis.. or anyone willing to drop their two cents?.would you gamble on a vintage hone at auction or pay top dollar for an unknown hone from an online seller?, figure one could ask for what your looking for but then again..cost a bit more dont'ya think
I've seen a lot of cotis ,and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that that one, like many of the recent ones, comes from Le Emperor'snewclothes.
James.
here are two pics, i guess the other side shot didnt load. try n post that later..
the one on the left is the softest, far right is the hardest..all of these have backed with schist
any guess?
Attachment 93522Attachment 93523
It's a Neopolitan Coti:
Chocolate, Vanilla, and CLAY!!!
:gth
I kill myself sometimes!
yummy..but i think i'd let these go stale in my drawer for a long long time kind.
finally got the other pic to load..any ideas?Attachment 93574
I personally think people put too much importance on what vein a stone comes from. Who cares, or at least should care? The only important thing is how the stone performs and give me a beautifully smooth and fast cutting super vintage coticule over the best new "named" coticule any day of the week. People treat the named coticules the same as I would see in people sporting "Cartier" jewelry and Rolex watches. I guess you have to ask yourself, what importance is the stone for you - as a status symbol or a stone that just sharpens razors extremely well. I don't think any name will guarantee that, even the best named coticules. From any vein, some are good and some not so good. The vein does give you some idea of consistency and characteristics, but I don't think people throw the names around with that in mind. It has become expensive "razor" accessory jewelry with name status attached.
i can understand that Stone..but since these stones are glued to schist..figure they're not that old.. thought i might have a few people guess.. as im fairly new to cotis..figure some others can help people pick out better coticules if the chance comes along later..dont know why...but i fell in love with these stones..knowing there's better cutters & finishers then others. makes me think this last one isnt going to be the last>=)...figure someone can share a lil knowledge when it comes to making a better choice, unless one gets greedy if you know what i mean..
I would agree the one on the left is a La Grise. I have a bout that performs very differently then my 5 vintage stones. The La Grise leaves a very very nice edge almost buttery I guess you could say. And yes if it is glued to schist then it is not a vintage stone. The glued combos from back in the day were backed with BBW. I don't know if there is really a difference in vintage coticules and the new veins being mined. I just really like the vintage part, but this does not make them any better than a newly mined stone.
I have to agree with stonehenge on this. I don't know one vein from another but I know when a stone works well for me and when it doesn't. Years ago I someone gave me a famous maker's dress watch as a gift. I was doing ironwork and banged it on a column breaking the crystal. I took it to an old watchmaker and asked him if it was a "good" watch? (worth fixing)
He said,"Does it keep good time ? If it keeps good time, it is a good watch." Same with stones no matter what they name them. :shrug:
Veins can be umpteen or more miles long. The Ardennes coticule veins have been given names by enthusiasts. But does the same vein many miles down the road have the same or different characteristics, looks etc?
Does it really matter?
Have you ever asked yourself where the iron was mined that your razor was made of?
If they are glued to schist then they are modern era ardennes stones. Maurice developed that backing in the modern era of the mine after belgian blue was found useful and no longer just a backing support like in the past.
Which brings up a question,is the BB on a vintage all natural coti of any use? have always wondered,this one is La Vennette (SP).
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...econe/belb.jpg
I would assume the vintage BBW is the same as BBW is today. It is the same stone only a natural combination of the two.
All you can do is create a slurry on the bbw and go for it. You'll either like it or you won't. I used to do that and treated naturals as if they were norton combos. Starting with the bbw and then going to the yellow but I haven't done that in a couple of years. I just stay with the coticule side and leave the bbw go. YMMV.
Thanks J>>>>>>>>>>>
Also, I've seen quite a few vintage coticules glued to slate/schist . Including some labeled , such as Old Rock, Deep Rock and Droescher. Say that to say that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the labeled ones are vintage. Nick is correct in that Ardennes recognized the value of the bbw as a hone rather than just a backing for the fragile yellow coticule. Matter of fact, just to show that the mfgs didn't consider the blue a hone back in the day, they often glued the label to the blue when the stone was a natural.
The way I understand it, and I am not by any stretch of the imagination a geologist, the garnet in the yellow is smaller and more heavily concentrated than the larger less concentrated blue. The blue however, because the garnets are larger and more spread out in the binder, will also be an effective hone, offering a somewhat different cutting than the yellow. That is the way I understood what I read anyway. If I am wrong, I was once before, please feel free to correct me.
La veinete is a natural combo layer but the blue half will always have a white line running down the side of the blue, which that stone does not have.
There were a lot of natural combos mined back in the day, all with different and some lost names.