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There's someone that have see or own one Cutler's Greenstone ? There are some pics to compare ?
All the notice that I know about this stone is which is green forest in color with blue dots sparkle, and that comes from Snowdonia 's area ,but I've never seen one picture,
I start to believe that's a legend. Hope someone can contradict me.
Thanks
Unfortunately, I'm not be the one who will be able to contradict your opinion. The stone certainly exists, or existed, or it's a subcategory of another hone, but so far, non alive I know or have heard has any documents that confirms he has one. Every day I see hones auctioned for "possible cuttlers green", and, that's all. If we can find an 150 years old person with HAD may provide more information. Until then, everything with forest green colour that is fine enough, with those blue sparkles, is a "possible cuttlers green".
Thank you Vasilis, I think this is one of the most wanted stone, everybody looking for this stone, but no one have see one piece. Maybe one day we can see one. I have recently finish to lap a stone that I'm not sure what is it, lapping time was extremly long, take me 6 days, ( not full day because I work too )and I have never seen a stone hard like this,at first thought I've think was a green Charnley Forest, but after have spend many hours to lap it, I wasn't sure. I start a new thread later where I post some pics.
Yes, I've see ebay auction, but I don't think is the true cutler's green.
I'm not sure if it actually is one of the most wanted stones. Maybe as collectible. The definition of sharp has changed the last 50 years or so, it could be something very very fine or just a coarse emery stone for all I know. If It took you so long to lap it and it's harder than Charnley forest the stone you have, it could be Llyn Idwal. Whenever we have a hard UK hone and we don't know what it is, it's a Llyn idwal.
I don't believe is a Lynn Idwall, I post some pictures, and in a couple of them is between a LI (or Grecian Hone ) on left side and a unknow stone on right side.Attachment 96040Attachment 96041Attachment 96039Attachment 96038Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis
From those three, the first is definitely a grecian hone, the other two are Llyn idwal or some Scottish variety of TOS or something like that. We haven't been able to distinguish them yet. For your Grecian hone, how fine do you think it is? Mine, labeled, doesn't look like a finisher. Around 4k with water I would say, and nowhere as hard as a Llyn Idwal, but quite fast.
Edit; The third one also looks like a grecian. But I could be wrong.
For your Grecian hone, how fine do you think it is? Mine, labeled, doesn't look like a finisher. Around 4k with water I would say
No, mine are decidedly a finisher, Grecian around 10K, the green in middle around 12K and the one on right side 15K ( what I believe is one of the 3 kind of Lynn Idwall, this one is the more finisher ) .
What's correct name Lynn or Llyn, maybe I mistake with Lynn of SRP or you with Llyn Melynllyn, I thinkyou are correct.
10-15k with water? That's really fine. And they look the same, especially the one on the left. It's Llyn, it means lake. I'm not sure in what language though. With oil it gets finer, but not as fine as a Llyn Melynllyn, I have a lot of experience with them.
Yes with water and without slurry, I don't use oil on my stones.
Grit rating is always a rash decision with naturals, but this is my guess based on my knowledge.
This is the one I have, http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ian-hones.html
The first 4 photos with the date. I haven't tried to hone one of my razors with this one yet, I always keep them in good condition, but for my knives, the edge and the scratch pattern, it doesn't looks or feels like a finisher. Perhaps I'll give it a try today.
Yes, I've read this thread in the past,at the end I believe Grecian is a brand name of Llyn Idwall.Maybe I'm wrong but this is what I think about.
They might come from the same mine, but, from what I see, they don't have anything else in common. I don't know if my LIs are harder than the rest, something strange since all of them are practically coloured glass, or my Grecian is softer than the rest or a coarser variety, but I don't think my Grecian is novaculite. Maybe something like coticule and BBW, if they come from the same place. It is faster than a LI but if it was this soft and pure silicon oxide, I'd think it would be even faster.
I can't help you because I haven't learn geology, I can only suggest to look it with microscope if you can see some different texture but the best way is always to try to hone a razor with it.
This is getting interesting. In about 30 mins I will use the most accurate and scientifically acceptable method to determine the grit of a stone. I'll try to lick them! I'm putting them in boiling water for 30 minutes, I'm a clean freak. All the stones are burnished from use to their finest degree, no sandpaper 600grit, lapping etc. Then I will post my results. If nobody is gonna do it, I will.
Well, we stay tuned and let us know your outcome.
And yes I lick always the stones to determinate if are coarse or fine, this is an old good trick.
Well, the method DOES work! The key is the speed. The faster you move the stone on your tongue, the better image you have for the stone, but there is a downside, more about it later.
My initial purposes were to test
A C12k
A yellow lake "support genuine labour" label
An Everkeen
A Llyn Idwal
A Charnley forest
A cambrock silkstone
A BBW
A Grecian
A Cretan oilstone, white, without oil
and another two Greek hones.
I started with the C12k VS the Yellow lake VS the Everkeen.
You can count the times a particle hits your tongue, it's like a Geiger counter. With a polished hone, this method really works.
I had brushed my tongue before the test, for ruling out possible false results, and, while I was "testing" those three, moving the stones as fast as I can for better results, I tasted blood :s From the abrasive action, my tongue started bleeding, and I stopped the test. There is always a possibility of infection, the results wouldn't be accurate enough, and it's kind of gross while bleeding :p. So far, those three are very close, maybe the Everkeen was a little finer than the other two, which is a surprise, I thought they were pretty close but my C12k was a little finer. For the rest, it will take a couple of days to complete the test.
Ahh ahh:), sorry for my laught, I wouldn't push you to a wrong move, I use to lick the stone gently only with the top of the tongue which is the most sensible part of body, in this way you can feel the grit for rate.
When your tongue allow you, try this method.
Usually I do that after have stone lapping , and my last lap is with sandpaper 1200 grit.
I tried several ways, the tip was the most effective, but the bigger surface you use the better you can understand the stone. I think the finish of the stone changes the results. The finer the surface gets, the better you can detect the actual particles, for a 1200 grit finish, you can practically feel the lines the sandpaper left. And, since we can sense the thickness and texture of a hair in our food with our tongues, I'm starting to believe it's actually a pretty reliable method. I will post my results when I will be able to complete the test.
Just to return to original task. I have never seen the CG. However I do have now a guess where they were from. My guess was formed by expected size of quarry, type of material required and also a bit of the area knowledge and many miles in legs. Sorry boys so far I would decline disclosing the information untill I will find the real proof a I would not be telling porkies and feeding information to sellers who sell fake hones with posh names.
Well, don't forget me ! Pic up one more for me, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrspach
And what can you tell me about the stone in pics above ? The middle one . Have you some guess?
Thank you
I know nothing about the stone, but if you go to this link and scroll down you will find a picture, of course provided the author has correctly identified it. http://www.olivia-seife.de/steinvergleich.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by Bushdoctor
Regards,
Howard
Thank you Howard, I'm not sure if this the really Cutler's Green, looks like a kind of Grecian Hone to me, anyway thank you to have suggest me this site, I have watched in the past and I remember there was something wrong, now I don't remember what.
All the best
Bushdoctor - if what you remember is in regard to the stone, it could be the grit rating: 6 - 8k would appear to be very low for a stone that has mythic status! Olivia may have been joking though - the listing under the CG is for a Charnley Forest and starts of "...This time for real..." which makes me think the Cutlers Green posting was not 'for real.'
If it is with regard to the site itself, it could be the mysterious absence/silence of the seller herself - I tried corresponding (a fairly long time ago, now) with a view to buy a Frankonian, but received no reply. This co-incided with her abrupt absence from the shaving forum she was once a frequent contributor to, and many of the members there noted that she could not be contacted - after a year or so none of them were any the wiser.
Regards,
Neil
Iirc Olivia initially thought her green speckled stone was a CF and added it to the SRP hone database as such. Later she realized it couldn't be a CF and called it a CG. I'm sure her choice was only based on the same info we have too (forest green with blue speckles). Her list is a few years old.
Should be interesting to see what adrspach can dig up.
Sadly, 'forest green with sparse blue speckles' means different things to different people! I suppose it depends on what sort of forest you are familiar with, and how you visualise blue. Blue, in itself, is a fairly speculative colour when applied to hones. I used to work with all sorts of natural stone and some of the 'blue' varieties were anything but blue! Most were greyish - to my eye, anyway.
There seem to be 2 or 3 separate mentions of CGs, dated 1877,1867 and 1852, by authors including Richard Knight, Penning and Holzapfel. The references however are not direct - I am sure they come from word of mouth or another source which as of yet I have been unable to find.
One promising lead was found in a catalogue of the Museum of the Royal Irish Academy, dated 1857:
Attachment 96356
but from the text that follows I am not sure whether they had a specimen or not, or even if it is only a generalised reference to hones used by cutlers. If they did have an example - maybe it is still around?
Regards,
Neil
Thank you Neil, thank you Piet,
yes, the first thing thant don't convince me is the color, the stone in Olivia pics is a light green and not a forest green, and the second thing is ,like Neil suggest, the grit rating .
Hope one day soon Adrspach make us satisfied.
The sizing of those hones is interesting. Neil do you know anything about real size of those numbers. I am not orienting in them.
You are not the only one who was trying to contact her Neil. Hopefully she is ok and soon will be back with us.
Here are some sizes of the hones in the collection with a bit more detail.
Attachment 96371Attachment 96372Attachment 96373
There were other hones in a 'Finds' section of the museum, but these are not covered by the book.
With regard to Olivia, I tried repeatedly over a period of about six months - complete silence though. I wonder what happened?
Regards,
Neil
