Shun/Kai 300/1k

I've a noob and have been sending razors out to get honed. I've been quite satisfied with the results but I think I would like to improve my honing skills. I acquired a WB that had a nick in the center of the blade that was so old that it had rusted through to the other side, easily a full 1/16" deep. It wasn't expensive so I approached it as a teaching tool. I have a Shun/Kai 300/1K stone for kitchen knives and a Norton 4k/8k combo for finishing. Also .5 and .25 diamond on felt paddle strops.

After lapping the stones and taping up the spine (which I since learned probably had to much tape on the tang which explains why the heel wasn't sharpening), I took off enough on the 300k to get rid of the pit and down to new steel, a couple of hours later. Then with computer and youtube videos playing in the background, I used an assortment of strokes to get a bevel set on the 1K before moving up to the Nortons. The microscope showed that there still some pitting on the bevel that just didn't want to come out (probably the tape).

After a couple of passes on the diamond spray and 50 laps on the strop, I ended up with an almost acceptable shave.

Knowing that the vast majority of the probelms lay with my lack of technique, could the Shun be a factor in bevel setting? I searched and see few references to Shun/Kai stones and a lot more with Choseras, Shaptons, Norton 1K. Do folks shun the Shuns or are they just not the right tool for the right job?

I doubt that I'm going to get into restorations or do a lot of honing but it would be acquiring a new skill.

I don't think the shun stone is the problem. I think you actually said your problem. You looked under the microscope and saw pitting on the bevel. You need to just go back down to ether the 300 or 1K and get that pitting out before you will be able to get the edge constantly sharp. Your edge needs to be all fresh steel to take and keep a razor edge. The rest is just practice practice practice.

bevel setting is 90% of the work you have to get all the pitting out . how many layers of tape are you using ? have you looked in to rolling x strokes ?

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Originally Posted by DGilloon

After lapping the stones and taping up the spine (which I since learned probably had to much tape on the tang which explains why the heel wasn't sharpening)

You don't hone on the tang so the amount of tape there is irrelevant. More likely the stabiliser was in the way or if it was a wedge then it was maybe just worn that way. The heels were very rarely ideal in older razors.


Knowing that the vast majority of the probelms lay with my lack of technique, could the Shun be a factor in bevel setting? I searched and see few references to Shun/Kai stones and a lot more with Choseras, Shaptons, Norton 1K. Do folks shun the Shuns or are they just not the right tool for the right job?

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If the Shun stones are for their kitchen knives they may be less than ideal for razors but often you can make do. I used the Kasumi stones for a while which are made for their kitchen knives & they are very soft which meant a lot of lapping compared to harder stones.

Thank you, you are correct, I meant to say stabilizer. Radio Shack Microscope died so I'll need to replace that. When I do, I'll start by adding 3 pieces of tape to the blade until I can get down to good, clean steel that is even all the way across. I also just noticed that it has a hollow spine, with a single stabilizer, the first of my collection with one. The dip in the spine from the shoulder to the point is about 1/8". This would indicate that rolling x strokes would be the only stroke to use, correct?

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Originally Posted by DGilloon

The dip in the spine from the shoulder to the point is about 1/8". This would indicate that rolling x strokes would be the only stroke to use, correct?

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Maybe not the only stroke but certainly a useful one. Is that a chip at the heel ?

No just a bad pic. The steel is clear of pits and nicks now to the naked eye however the bevel is not even on either side.

What would your progression be for a razor like this in this condition? Back to the 300 and then what?

I usually start restores on the Shapton pro 320 if the edge warrants it. I may use the 1k,1.5k,2k,5k, 8k progression after that.
Finishing can vary between 12k ,coticule or Jnats but most likely coti or Jnats.

Thank you for your help. Back to the 300k.

Seems to be no/little wear on the spine. Is it the same on both sides. If so & the bevel is uneven it would not appear to be a warped razor. The grind could be "off" at the edge tho. Keep us updated. :)

I noticed the cut resistant glove. Do you hone with gloves on?
MIke

Not honing but when I'm polishing by hand with Mothers. The hand holding the blade is bare but the hand holding the rag and working the polish on the blade is gloved. Probably not needed but they weren't expensive, cheap protection

I agree that the wear on the spine does not appear to be uneven. Key would be as stated, getting the bevel set and then moving to your 4K/8K. So long as the razor is laying flat on the hone, I would try doing circles with the razor at a 45 degree angle to set the bevel followed by some X strokes at the same 45 degree angle. Once a razor has been polished or buffed, it usually takes some extra circles to bring the bevel back, so a layer of tape is not a bad idea on this razor. Once you have the bevel set to where it is biting sharp on the thumb pad, then you are ready to move on. I would stay with the 45 degree angle strokes on your 4K/8K progression as well and you should be good to go.

Have fun.

So after the razor burn healed from the WB, I decided that perhaps starting with something a little less complex was called for. A recent buy was a Christensen 5/8 in pretty decent shape. With a clean blade and a decent edge that had minor pitting and some lateral scratches, it seemed like a more straightfoward task. The DMT 325 arrived so I started with this to get rid of the pits and scratches instead of the Shun. Once that was completed, I noticed that the edge now pretty course with chips. I ran the edge over a small piece of luan since I had no cork available which cleaned those up. Then I started on the 1K, then the 4k, 8k with slurry, 8k without slurry and then some diamond paste paddles.

To make a long story short, today I had a good shave from my first successful honing and the razor is in the rotation. Thanks for everyone's help as the advice was invaluable. When I have a little time, the WB will be brought out again and I'll have another try at it. Thank you all very much.

What I don't understand is how the honemiesters make any money at honing. That took me about six hours to get satistified with it, removing scratches and getting the bevel even on one side and then getting it to match on the other side. Talk about a break even proposition.

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