Does anyone have any experience with this plate for lapping? And if so should one go for the 400 or 1200?
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Does anyone have any experience with this plate for lapping? And if so should one go for the 400 or 1200?
Go with the 400 grit for general lapping. I like it much better than the 325 DMT. Lighter, no sticking, flatter, only drawback is that it isn't as nice for sharpening than the DMT, but I use it only for lapping, so thats not a problem for me.
It depends on what you are lapping IMO. I have both the 400 and 1200 Atomas and both get used for lapping. Anything under an 8k, I use the 400 generally. I mainly use the 1200 to lap, clean, and generate slurry on most of my finishers when necessary.
James.
I use the Atoma 1200 on my Japanese natural finishers. DMT for all my other hones.
I have no issues with my dmt1200 Diamond Plate
What about break in procedures? I know the DMT's require break in procedures before lapping a good hone, but do the Atomas also require a break in procedure, and if so, is it the same as the procedure we use on DMT's?
I have the 140 and the 1200, like them both for lapping, both more durable than the corresponding DMT plates IMO.
Unless you see obvious high spots evidenced by scratches in your stone there is no need to break in an Atoma for stone lapping.
Sharpen some kitchen knifed that aren't serrated for a few days..the dmt diamond plates NEED to be broken in to be used effectively
Yes, I've had to break in all my DMT's, especially the 325 grit, and they can really screw up the surface of a stone if not broken in properly. Figured the Atoma also needed to be broken in, but didn't want to do anything to it if not necessary. I'll play around with it and look closely for scratches, then go from there.
I've only seen 1 out of 6 Atoma that had a small high spot. The design is very different to the DMT .
All of my DMT stones needed to be broken in (about 6 or 7), my Atoma was fine out of the box.
I'm now using the Atoma 400 and the Atoma 1200 for my lapping needs, and I'm loving them both. The 400 seems more aggressive than my DMT 325 grit, but it does not leave scratching on my 1k stones. The Atoma 1200 is also more aggressive than I expected, but I love it. It makes quick work of lapping. The 1200 did have one tiny cluster of diamonds that was leaving scratches on my 8k, but it was easily removed, so it's leaving super smooth finishes. After 3 weeks of using them both continuously, both look brand new, and show no wear whatsoever. There is basically zero suction between the hones & Atomas, so that is an added bonus. I did notice right away that the Atomas are only about half the weight of the DMT's, but this was no problem for me since I mainly hold my lapping plate in one hand, hone in the other when lapping. I do wish the Atomas came with rubber feet like the DMT's, but they don't. Overall, I'm very pleased with my new Atomas, and don't see myself needing a DMT anytime in the near future.
And you can replace the abrasive sheet if you ever wear one out. :)
Attention: Re the Atoma #1200 diamond plate. After consultation with the manufacturer of the Atoma 1200, it is the unavoidable fact that the Atoma 1200 has no place in lapping/cleaning or anything at all to do with waterstones. In fact the Manufacturer Tsuboman and Tools from Japan, have made it abundantly clear that if you use a 1200 Atoma on any waterstone they (Tools from Japan sell) will immediately revoke and make null and void all warranties/guarantees due to the damage that will be caused to both the plate and the waterstone. The Atoma 1200 is best used with steel. Using it on waterstones, will degrade the plate rapidly, and the nickel that the fine diamonds adhere to lose the diamonds which become embedded in the stone causing significant damage. Especially if you then push your favourite blade over a stone with the peak of a diamond in it's path!
The Atoma 400 however is suitable for lapping waterstones and is recommended by the manufacturer, taking care not to gouge into the waterstone.
This is not from me fellas, I was intending to buy a 1200 Atoma, and The boss of Tools from Japan basically wouldn't sell it to me if it were to have anything to do with waterstones. And went on to, in detail to make it absolutely clear to anyone who uses synthetic waterstones with this plate, they will wreck the stone and the plate, losing the warranties.
Good enough for me. (any doubts . store@toolsfromjapan.com -)
Bobski.
My Atoma 1200 is toast too, but I was lapping everything under the sun. Big mistake. Live and learn.
Just my 2 cents, but I've used my Atoma 1200 for 2.5 years now for lapping 8k and above waterstones, (mainly an 8k and a couple of Eschers), and I use it several times per week for this purpose. I've never used it for much of anything else, except to touch up a kitchen knife from time to time, and mine is still in perfect working order, with no wear to the nickel plating, and almost no visible wear to the diamonds. Perhaps it is fine with higher grit stones, but not so much with lower grit stones.....I'm not sure. I expect to get many years of use from mine yet though, and it has given me no reason to doubt it's capabilities of delivering. I especially like how fast it laps my stones - within a matter of seconds it has my stones ready to go again.
Mate, I was looking at what I thought was an obvious thing, ie, if the 400 was OK and good for lapping our stones, then a 1200 would provide a finer more smooth finish. I only found out when I emailed Stuart Tierney at Tools from Japan, a person I have dealt with many times re purchases, who said, 'If you are putting this near any of my stones (Gokumyo Suehiro's) you will void the warranty of both the lapping plate and your 20 K Suehiro'.....bang. I was told in no uncertain terms, 'Don't use it. It has no place anywhere near waterstones'. He went on to give a detailed technical reason as to why. I have the Atoma 400 and the dmt325, and I am glad that my eagerness to find the ultimate lapping tool, ended up up, saving me the money I would have spent, had Stuart Tierney told me off! So, if your experiences are good, well good for you, but this bloke works for/with the maker of the plates and the stones. No brainer guys.
Great, I will continue using mine, and you can buy something else. Sounds like a no brainer to me!
No worries, I'm only the messenger, no offence meant. Bob.
None taken. I was only stating the obvious, which is I love my atomas, and have had great success lapping my waterstones with them all. I've never needed a warranty on any of the stones I purchased, and I don't expect to need any warranties in the future. When my 1200 does wear out I will be very quick to purchase another just like it. I would advise any of my customers or friends to do the same when it comes to lapping their 8ks and above.
What did he recommend as the ideal lapping tool for the 20 k then or did you save money by not having a flat stone. ;)
I've been lapping my expensive jnats & 8k & above stones with the 1200 Atoma at least 5 years & my friend So Yamashita from Japan-Tools, who in fact, introduced Jnats to western forums & later the Atoma plates, has done so for over a decade & recommends it.
If the uber exe Shapton DGLP is only 325 grit & is recommended for up to their 30k a 1200 Atoma will do no damage unless you do something stupid.
I would love to read the technical reason to not use one.
Please Gentlemen, I am but the messenger. I was in the process of buying one as you know Oz as I sought your opinion, and I received the below reply to my email to the manufacturer. So I figured that if this store makes the plate they may have some idea of what it is for, etc. It's not my opinion.
I emailed Stuart Tierney from a company called Tools from Japan, (Manufacturer and distributor of Atoma), re buying a #1200 Atoma for lapping finer stones. Below is a direct answer/quote to my request for obtaining a #1200 Atoma for lapping.
Quote
"I'll keep this as simple as I can."
"If you try to flatten a fine grit waterstone with the #1200 Atoma, and I am somehow involved, then any warranty that may be applicable to the stone or the Atoma plate is immediately null and void, no exceptions." "I should actually put up a sign in the store, just so I don't have to fix this problem again. (#1200 Atoma with waterstones)"
"In other words, ""Just don't do it"". (Flatten waterstones with it)"
"We, the people who make Atoma, myself and a couple of stonemakers we work with directly, know this is a problem, why it happens, and it's not a fixable problem, but one to be avoided. At the same time, we, the manufacturers of Atoma, can't really tell folks to not do whatever they want with their own stuff, who say it might work for them and we (Are silly!)
""I have the pictures and high value $$$bills to say it's a bad idea!"
"The Atoma #1200 is a good bit of kit, but with the diamonds relatively small, the nickel plating has a hard time holding onto them and they can dislodge from the plate contaminating the stone, wearing out the Atoma very quickly and causing more problems than anyone wants or needs. This plate is better suited to steel, (Hard steel)."
"The Atoma #400 is better suited, Just run it over a few coarse stones to take off the high spots, then you'll be all set with it. It'll flatten the fine stones well leaving a smooth finish."
Stuart Tierney
store@toolsfromjapan.com "
Ahhh ! I see now. You were taliking about flattening & I was thinking maintenance lappping &/or slurry production.
Think about it. How out of whack should a 8k + stone get with the normal few strokes it is exposed to. That same "new" stone could be shaped like the Sydney harbour bridge & a 1200 plate is then the wrong tool until the end stage of "lapping"
I would think to get an Atoma diamond to lodge in a stone a noob would have used excess pressure & used solely the 1200. I bet that happens a lot hence Stu's advice. It's simpler to have a blanket policy in business to protect yourself.
I would not advise the same for DMT's finer plates as they also don't because the plates are flat & truly the nickel is easily stripped from the matrix unlike the pimpled surface of the Atoma.
btw Stu doesn't make Atoma, a company called Tsuboman makes them :) Easy mistake reading the context of his reply.
Oz, I only bought it up after basically being told not to buy it? I'm happy with the #400 and for my limited usage and care when using and not gouging etc I will probably just stick with it and the dmt325. I made an assumption that the higher grit plate the finer the result. I'm done I think...lol....I'm going for a shave with my fav MoDoSo. Cheers Bob
I have the Atoma 140, 400, and 1200. I only ever have used them for steel removal. They work very well for major repair work on edges. If you have a visible chip that extends beyond the depth of the bevel, you need to remove a lot of steel. Even the 400 can rapidly remove enough steel to eliminate that chip. I like them much better than the DMTs for this purpose.
Why you'd try to properly lap a stone with the 1200 is beyond me. Stu's advice is sound there.
However, as oz says, for generating slurry (which if done regularly also keeps the stone flat) the 1200 is excellent. I've been doing that with mine for what must be 6 or more years now on the recommendation of So Yamashita as well. I also use the 1200 to set bevels.
It's just a common sense thing I think. Stu needs to cover himself as a vendor by making blanket statements. Completely understandable and I'd do the same in his position.
But it definitely doesn't mean you can't rub the 1200 on a hone in a figure 8 pattern.
James.
My experience has been that you can compromise an Atoma 1200 with heavy pressure and thick slurry when flattening stones. I did in fact do just that, and that plate will shed diamonds now even lightly used.
I did some research after it started misbehaving, and if you use it for heavy duty flattening, be sure to do so under running water or at least be careful to never feel the slurry thickening. So far I have kept the plate well rinsed during use and have not had a problem.
And IIRC, DMT does not recommend using their fine 8k plate for raising sharpening slurry for the same reason.
Cheers, Steve
DMT also recommends all lapping be done under water (submerged) or under a running tap. I've been told slurry will kill a DMT so keep it wet when lapping.
Personal choice. Common sense. As to the advice of experienced straight shavers on our forum, it has promoted healthy chat to illustrate that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I take from this thread a thorough assessment of all the options regarding lapping/flattening/slurry creation and all the tools at our disposal. A great fun way to explore what has been a controversial at times, collection of opinions from the best we have to offer. Win/win fellas! Bob.
Hey guys, sorry for bumping a somewhat old thread but I figure it's better to ask here rather than start a new one....
I know Stuart warns that he isn't the fastest guy to respond to emails and all, but I am curious how long is the normal wait. I ordered some stones from him 12 days ago, and haven't heard anything other than the immediate auto-reply at the time I paid. A couple of follow up emails have gone unanswered as well. It's a little disconcerting not to hear some kind of reply or acknowledgement by now.
Is there another way to reach him besides through the store?
Hi Pendo and Welcome to SRP. I'm not sure who you ordered from but it seems they would have SENT TRACKING #'s as soon as shipped.
Now, I just had surgery recent then got Infection, these health problems pop up with any of us, there has to be a reason for the Person to not be right up on this sale OR they Dropped off the end of the professional spectrum.
Personally it is a real peeve when people do this, I hope they get back to you soon, or you find a Telephone # and find out what is going on.
Oh gosh, I guess I didn't realize that was my first post! I've been reading/searching for a couple of years now probably though. Got my first straight about a year ago, but it's only been the last 2-3 months that I've gotten to where I consistently achieve DFS or CCS entirely with a straight.
Anyway, I wanted to say that Stuart contacted me Sunday and all is well.
Hello folks,
forgive me for reviving this post again, but i think it's better ask here (since my question is related to Atoma diamond stones being used for lapping) and if someone reads in the future, they will have a bit of history.
maybe I'm confused, but from whet I've been reading round it seems like there's actually two different types of Atoma stones, one is made like other plates, just putting the metal on a block/plate of steel, and others (called Atoma Economy) made in a think 1mm sheet of steel that is then pasted with some strong adhesive veeery thin tape to an aluminum plate/block.
the Atoma Economy stones are supposed to be more economic because eventually, instead of replacing the stone with the whole steel block and all, you only order a replacement sheet, remove the original, place the new one in the aluminum plate and that's it. Maybe there's an economy too by not using the whole block of steel but aluminum (not sure if the aluminum is cheaper)
Anyway, i know that some folks even go and do combo stones (some common configs are 400/1200 and 140/600) by buying an spare sheet and pasting it on the back of the original one grit plate. this seems like an appealing idea to me.
Sooooo since i want to use the Atoma for lapping my stones (I told you this was related to Lapping with Atomas)and some times maybe a quick blade repair... I'm wondering about how flat they are, i've read that the tape used is less than 0.01 mm thick, this this should not affect flatness too much. I've seen a video of they guys from "ToolsfromJapan" showing how to place the replacement sheet and test it flat. but there also a review in amazon of a guy showing some pics of stone not flat.
Wondering if any of you have the economy type and can contribute letting us know if it's completely flat, and/or even better if anyone has both types and can offer a comparisson of "Atoma" vs "Atoma economy"
THANKS!!
-gabe
If I remember right, than they make only the alum plate with glued on diamond sheet thing (I have one too). The sell the sheets already glued to plates, and separate too. Maybe the former is the normal, wich you thought is made like the DMT stones, and the latter the Economy version (only sheet, without aluminium plate). Imo the 400 grit Atoma is the best bang for the buck for stone lapping. Much flatter than any DMT I have seen and used, and not much pricier. They are definitely as flat as one would wish for stone lapping. Some folks use even the 1200 for a slurry stone, or smoothing stone for their Jnats.