Naniwa Flattening Stone

I'm new to straight razor shaving, about 3 months now. I've just bought my first set of hones. They are Chosera 1k, SS 3k, 5k, 8k and 12k. I also purchased the NANIWA Flattening Stone Grain size 220. It's a huge thing, measuring 12x6x¾". It looks really course and although the instructions are in Japanese, it says to sprinkle the silcon carbide powder on it to speed up the process. I have also purchased this grey powder.

Before I start lapping my 'brand new' stones, I was hoping that someone may have some experience with this setup. Should the stone just be lightly wet as like honing? How much lapping is generally required, before every use or less? I'm assuming firgure of 8 motion but would love to hear if anyone else uses it. There is nothing on you-tube regarding this trueing stone. Do brnad new stones even require lapping and this stone looks like its so course I will take a lot off.

As of now, I've not honed any razor yet. I'm not wanting go straight into bevel setting etc, just taking things easy, step by step. I've got a shave ready razor that is just starting to go dull, so will try a few laps of the 8 then 12K stones and see how I get on. Here are some pics of the stone from the web.

Looks like a norton lapping stone, the norton lapping stone requires lapping itself to keep it flat, so you will eventually have to lap that thing as well. A person is better off just using a DMT 325 bench plate for lapping. They are flat and stay flat and don't require lapping.

Lapping is done with water. Scribble a bunch of pencil lines up and down your stones, then start rubbing them on the lapping stone. Keep at it till the pencil lines are gone. Then repeat. It shouldn't take too long to lap the stones.

1. I'd soak the stones for a few minutes before lapping them

2. For the initial lapping you need to lap until flat. Make a pencil grid on the stone, and lap very evenly until it's gone. You can repeat if desired. Then chamfer the edges (so they aren't sharp)

3. For cleaning and refreshing the stone you just need a few swipes until the surface looks fresh and clean.

4. Use a figure 8 motion, and rotate the stone once in a while.

That flattening stone is just a course, hard, waterstone. It's surface will wear down a bit with use. Occasionally it will benefit from a bit of lapping on some sandpaper.

Make sure it's flat before you start using it. If it's not flat then you will have to lap it on course sandpaper. Once the lapping stone is flat, it's unlikely to go out of flat again, since it get's rubbed on flat waterstones each time it's used.

Michael

Thanks for the advice. I'm a little confused though as I've read in a few places, inlcuding the place where I bought them from, that these Naniwa stones should not be left soaking as it causes them to crack. re you saying its ok to soak them just for the lapping?

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Originally Posted by mjsorkin

1. I'd soak the stones for a few minutes before lapping them

2. For the initial lapping you need to lap until flat. Make a pencil grid on the stone, and lap very evenly until it's gone. You can repeat if desired. Then chamfer the edges (so they aren't sharp)

3. For cleaning and refreshing the stone you just need a few swipes until the surface looks fresh and clean.

4. Use a figure 8 motion, and rotate the stone once in a while.

That flattening stone is just a course, hard, waterstone. It's surface will wear down a bit with use. Occasionally it will benefit from a bit of lapping on some sandpaper.

Make sure it's flat before you start using it. If it's not flat then you will have to lap it on course sandpaper. Once the lapping stone is flat, it's unlikely to go out of flat again, since it get's rubbed on flat waterstones each time it's used.

Michael

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Originally Posted by postmastergeneral

Thanks for the advice. I'm a little confused though as I've read in a few places, inlcuding the place where I bought them from, that these Naniwa stones should not be left soaking as it causes them to crack. re you saying its ok to soak them just for the lapping?

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Follow the manufacturer's instructions. The newer synthetics should not be soaked for a long time. They will get wet enough as you lap them. 5 mins. or so will do no harm tho. The lapping stone however is a different material & will not be harmed by a soak. Again it is unnecessary. It should be checked for flatness however.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Follow the manufacturer's instructions. The newer synthetics should not be soaked for a long time. They will get wet enough as you lap them. 5 mins. or so will do no harm tho. The lapping stone however is a different material & will not be harmed by a soak. Again it is unnecessary. It should be checked for flatness however.

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Thanks. Reading on here it would appear there is very little use of this particular stone. I'm now considering selling it on eBay and going with the more popular DMT stone. Just to make sure I've got the right one, is it this one? D8C D8C Diamond Sharp Whetstone 8 X 3In Coarse 0017042007683 Dmtd8C
It's 8x3x3/8"
Cheers

Yes, that is it. Quite a popular diamond plate.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Yes, that is it. Quite a popular diamond plate.

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Thanks. So you reckon this is the best one to get? Does the plate ever require lapping or will it always stay true?

Well, best is a relative term :) but yes it will stay true. Heavy steel plate covered in diamonds can't lose shape really.
Personally I like the Atoma plates as they don't stick to the stone being lapped but they are a bit more exe.

I don't let my 12k stone soak for a long time. Just a couple of minutes under running water before lapping. Im sure it's fine either way.

Dmt d8c certainly is the most popular option. It also makes a wicked knife stone.

Michael

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Well, best is a relative term :) but yes it will stay true. Heavy steel plate covered in diamonds can't lose shape really.
Personally I like the Atoma plates as they don't stick to the stone being lapped but they are a bit more exe.

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Hi. Do you have a link to the Atoma plates? what grit do you use and what size? Thanks

Sorry , don't have a link. I bought mine locally but google the word you will get lots of hits.

They are one size 3" x 8.25". I use the 400 grit up to 5k & the 1200 grit for 5k upward.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Sorry , don't have a link. I bought mine locally but google the word you will get lots of hits.

They are one size 3" x 8.25". I use the 400 grit up to 5k & the 1200 grit for 5k upward.

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Ok thanks a lot, that has been most helpful, cheers.

I am just getting into straight razor shaving and for honing I decided to go with a Naniwa SS 3/8k combistone. I am thinking about getting a 1k and 12k stone later. I hope I can use this setup to sharpen my kitchen knives too?

My question is about lapping, I have no lapping stone yet and this thread makes me doubt it's a worthwhile investment. But I have a glazed tile I bought in the local hardware store, been using it with sandpaper for when I need a flat surface for other things.

Will this be better than buying a lapping stone, could I embed some kind of lapping media on the tile itself, or should I use sandpaper?

Another thought I've had recently was maybe I was too hasty getting a Naniwa stone, maybe I should have gotten a coticule and learned to use it. Maybe I'll do that after I've worn this one out (assuming thats possible).

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Originally Posted by HDS

I am just getting into straight razor shaving and for honing I decided to go with a Naniwa SS 3/8k combistone. I am thinking about getting a 1k and 12k stone later. I hope I can use this setup to sharpen my kitchen knives too?

My question is about lapping, I have no lapping stone yet and this thread makes me doubt it's a worthwhile investment. But I have a glazed tile I bought in the local hardware store, been using it with sandpaper for when I need a flat surface for other things.

Will this be better than buying a lapping stone, could I embed some kind of lapping media on the tile itself, or should I use sandpaper?

Another thought I've had recently was maybe I was too hasty getting a Naniwa stone, maybe I should have gotten a coticule and learned to use it. Maybe I'll do that after I've worn this one out (assuming thats possible).

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No you made the right move with the naniwa 3/8k they are much easier to learn on. natural stones vary in there honing ability.

With the Naniwa Chosera and Super Stones, I simply spray them with water until they quit drinking which basically means the water starts to pool on top of them vs. soaking into them. The Naniwa plates and Norton plates work OK on their respective stones, but not so well on any other stones. I prefer the GDLP which is pretty expensive or the DMT 325 or Atoma plates for every day use. I don't obsess over flattening either. Mostly flat is good for me. I use them more for cleaning and the flattening is just part of the process. You can tell however, when you get mostly flat when the color of the stone is consistent vs. some areas of the stone having the dirty color you started with after use. The stones definitely need to be wet when cleaning/lapping them particularly with the Naniwa flattening stone or it will gunk up.

Be careful using the Naniwa's on either heavy knives or tools as they are soft feeling which makes them great for straight razors, but they can be gouged by the bigger knives or tools.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

With the Naniwa Chosera and Super Stones, I simply spray them with water until they quit drinking which basically means the water starts to pool on top of them vs. soaking into them. The Naniwa plates and Norton plates work OK on their respective stones, but not so well on any other stones. I prefer the GDLP which is pretty expensive or the DMT 325 or Atoma plates for every day use. I don't obsess over flattening either. Mostly flat is good for me. I use them more for cleaning and the flattening is just part of the process. You can tell however, when you get mostly flat when the color of the stone is consistent vs. some areas of the stone having the dirty color you started with after use. The stones definitely need to be wet when cleaning/lapping them particularly with the Naniwa flattening stone or it will gunk up.

Be careful using the Naniwa's on either heavy knives or tools as they are soft feeling which makes them great for straight razors, but they can be gouged by the bigger knives or tools.

Have fun.

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Thanks Lynn. That has been really helpful too. I've decided not to use the Naniwa flattening stone and I'm looking at a couple of Atoma plates as mentioned in the previous reply. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, much appreciated.

The naniwas are quite soft, meaning they will hollow quickly if sharpening tools, chisels, kitchen knives etc. I just went through a new set of chisel and lapped them on a sheet of glass using wet/dry sandpaper. This would work for lapping the naniwas as well but it would be quite messy. Personally I would dedicate the naniwas to your straight razors and buy the combo DMT 325/1200. You can use it to lap your naniwas and sharpen everything else you need sharpening.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Sorry , don't have a link. I bought mine locally but google the word you will get lots of hits.

They are one size 3" x 8.25". I use the 400 grit up to 5k & the 1200 grit for 5k upward.

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Hi, you can't buy them here in the UK but there is a website in Germany that sells them for 99euros. ATOMA Diamond Sharpening Stones Actually I got all my Naniwas from here and they are ok. The only thing I wanted to ask you was do they need breaking in? I've read on other forums that brand new diamond plates can sometimes scratch the hones. If so, how do you break them in, is it just a matter of using them? I like the idea you can replace the sheets too. Thanks

If there are no high spots,which will be evidenced by a patch of localized scratches on your first lapping attempt, eg below,they are good to go without breaking in. They will simply be more aggressive at first. I've only had one out of 6 or so that had a high spot & they are very consistently flat too.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

If there are no high spots,which will be evidenced by a patch of localized scratches on your first lapping attempt, eg below,they are good to go without breaking in. They will simply be more aggressive at first. I've only had one out of 6 or so that had a high spot & they are very consistently flat too.

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Ok, I'm just about to buy the 400 and the 1200. Could you tell me what is required for breaking in should I be unlucky with one as like your photo? Thanks

I rubbed a Spyderco UF ceramic stone on mine for a few laps but if you locate the high spot you could most likely knock off the diamonds selectively with a hard object. Never tried it but maybe a pin punch & a light tap or 2 with a small hammer.
Diamonds don't wear easily but they will shatter. Rubbing over a ceramic plate or a hard tool steel my work too.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Sorry , don't have a link. I bought mine locally but google the word you will get lots of hits.

They are one size 3" x 8.25". I use the 400 grit up to 5k & the 1200 grit for 5k upward.

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Anyway thanks. I've just bought the 400 and 1200 grit Atoma plates. I will quickly now sell my Naniwa flattening stone. Thanks for the advice, I'm glad I've taken the plunge and gone for these Atoma plates. They sound like they are ideal for lapping.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I rubbed a Spyderco UF ceramic stone on mine for a few laps but if you locate the high spot you could most likely knock off the diamonds selectively with a hard object. Never tried it but maybe a pin punch & a light tap or 2 with a small hammer.
Diamonds don't wear easily but they will shatter. Rubbing over a ceramic plate or a hard tool steel my work too.

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Let's hope mine are ok.

The odds are good.

Hello,

Naniwa Flattening Stone (NFS) is very usefull for quick and rough flattening of large slates (and soft stones). Diamond plates are too small for stones bigger than 300mm and sand paper is slow. But you have to use finer sand paper after NFS. It's leave coarse surface of stone.

Diamond plates are faster than NFS. I think for Naniwa SS it is not bad choice, but Atoma 400 is better. Soak NFS before use it. Better is half submerged in water during flattening of another stone. NFS is very hard and wear out slowly if you will use soft stones (Chosera is hard stone).

I think Atoma 1200 is to expensive and less usefull. For stones finer than 6k use another 6k stone for improve smoothness of stone surface. It's possible to use syntetic nagura. But naguras are small. So result may be little uneven stone. I use King 6k (185 x 62 x 19 mm) often.

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Originally Posted by atercz

Hello,

Naniwa Flattening Stone (NFS) is very usefull for quick and rough flattening of large slates (and soft stones). Diamond plates are too small for stones bigger than 300mm and sand paper is slow. But you have to use finer sand paper after NFS. It's leave coarse surface of stone.

Diamond plates are faster than NFS. I think for Naniwa SS it is not bad choice, but Atoma 400 is better. Soak NFS before use it. Better is half submerged in water during flattening of another stone. NFS is very hard and wear out slowly if you will use soft stones (Chosera is hard stone).

I think Atoma 1200 is to expensive and less usefull. For stones finer than 6k use another 6k stone for improve smoothness of stone surface. It's possible to use syntetic nagura. But naguras are small. So result may be little uneven stone. I use King 6k (185 x 62 x 19 mm) often.

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Thanks. Bt since posting this thread I have ordered the Atoma 400 and 1200 from Germany. One of the stones is out of stock and so there is a delay for me getting them. They should both be ready for me in about a week. I will most likely sell my Naniwa flattening stone. Thanks for the info though.

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Originally Posted by eleblu05

No you made the right move with the naniwa 3/8k they are much easier to learn on. natural stones vary in there honing ability.

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I got my razor a while ago now, due to an accident with rust I had to rehone it. I wasn't able to get a real good cutting edge with the 3/8 stone I felt. I had in the meanwhle found a pretty cheap and small (100x40mm) coticule that I decided to go for, with that I was able, after looking up some youtube tutorials to hone my razor again to being sharp enough to pass the dropping hair test.

So I guess I got a 3/8 naniwa stone for sale.

So.......what did you do on the 3/8 stone? Any bevel setting prior to it's use? Number of strokes? Type of razor? Condition? What did yo do on the Coticule? Number of strokes? Number of tries? Dropping hair test eh.........

By the way, I like using the Coticules on occasion too. They are nice stones and can provide very respectable results.

Thank you for calling.....................:hmmm:

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Originally Posted by HDS

I got my razor a while ago now, due to an accident with rust I had to rehone it. I wasn't able to get a real good cutting edge with the 3/8 stone I felt. I had in the meanwhle found a pretty cheap and small (100x40mm) coticule that I decided to go for, with that I was able, after looking up some youtube tutorials to hone my razor again to being sharp enough to pass the dropping hair test.

So I guess I got a 3/8 naniwa stone for sale.

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Okay maybe I said something I shouldn't. I am sorry I don't know whats a touchy subject or not. I just got better results with the one stone and I just watched a buncha videos on youtube and developed an idea of what todo from there. Maybe I misused it or something I dunno, I just like the smaller stone better, takes up less space, I am only gonna have this one razor anyway so I don't need a lot of maintenance equipment.