Replace my King 1000?

Lately my King 1000 bevel setter has been giving me problems. Either I am geting fussier as my honing skills develope or my King 1000 has developed issues.
Lately I have been noticing little "ticks" that can be felt and maybe heard. I can even see these little solid chunks imbedded in the stone easily with the naked eye. I have been prying the bigger ones out of the stone leaving a small hole where they were dug out. Sometimes I can lap the stone and recover smoothness but if a big chunk is showing removing it is a better long term option.
Did I just not notice these as a newbe honer? Have I worn this stone down to an area that now has issues? Does anyone else have similar problems with their King waterstones? Also do these type issues show up in other brands as well?
I was asleep at the wheel and just missed bidding on a lightly used 1000 Shapton on Ebay and now I am tempted to buy a new stone.
Any help with this issue will be greatly appreciated.

I've never used a King, however, I'd be giving it a good lap to see if more turn up or they dissappear - I don't know that I'd be honing on it until they are gone, though

Havachat45 is right. King stones are softer and need to be lapped flat from dishing out. The King come in around the 2000 grit mark. The Shapton 1000 is nice. I prefer the Chosera 1000. King stones are fine stones too.
MIke

http://i.imgur.com/PwEzF.jpg

I have had a similar problem with a Shapton 1k. lapping it helps a lot!

I have a king 1k/6k and have not had the OP's problem; however I use it with diamond hone raised slurry. If I am not careful to clean my diamond hone between hones I sometimes have grit contamination issues. It sounds like ticking.

Jonathan

@ op ~ The only thing I can think of is if you have been lapping on sandpaper you may have used too much pressure & embedded particles in the King. Soft stones are prone to this.

Thanks for your offerings guys.
I have tried several times to lap through these troublesome "chunks" imbedded in the stone. I just measured where I dug a piece out and the larger chunks are close to 1 mm in diameter. The chunks are the same exact color as the particles the stone is made from. When I dig them out they remind me of red brick and break like brick chunks would as well.
Its a big stone, (8 1/4" x 2 5/8" x 1 1/4") so I think I might just remove what is left of the label on the other side and lap it. Maybe the defects in the stone won't run all the way through it.
In reality, now that I have recognized and can easily see the problem chunks, they are easy enough to remove. That will be my temporary solution.
I am still in the market for another stone. There are a lot of different models available even from a single manufacturer. Shapton and Naniwa for example. I guess some serious research would be the way to start.
Any suggestions as to "more bang for the buck" on stones still in production? I understand many models are no longer being made.
Thanks again for your help.

It's often recommended with Nortons to lap off 1/8 " to get to a good surface under similar circumstances.
Never heard of a King doing that but you may have a faulty one.

Here's some info on bevel setters:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...l-setting.html

I'm actually having a similar issue right now. Not noticing any chunks as I always lap w/ a dimond plate, but am noticing a much grittier feel than normal. THe stone has always been very well soaked (sometimes left overnight in water), so I don't think that's it 7 I also keep the edges really smoothly chamfered.

THe thing I really used to like about this stone is the smooth edge it left made for a very easy transition to the Ax method on my Narutaki before finishing on tomo slurry, but now the stone is acting funky. THe edge left seems much coarser & less developed than before. :confused: My test for a good edge off that stone was popping arm hairs reasonably well after palm stropping, but now, barely anything & the bevels all seem to disintegrate when going to the Ax method, a sure sign they (the bevels) were bad to begin with. I'll try more lapping & see if that fixes it as that's really about the only thing I can think of, short of buying a chosera & some Shapton GS when I have more cash.

Alas, there is variation, even in synthetic hones. Anything man-made is bound to suffer a dud from time to time. Sorry it happened to you.

I tried flipping the stone over & lapping the other side. That side is better but still not as fine as the stone used to be. I'm going to keep lapping both sides & see what happens (on those rare afternoons where I have hours to kill & nothing better to do :D), but I think I'm just going to get a chosera 1k or 800 when I have a bit more cash & be done with it. :beer2: There's a reason these stones are so cheap & I think this might be one of them.

I like dmts now. Used to have a king and have a Norton 220/1k combo that I don't use anymore. No lapping, no puddles. Once you break it in, its a piece of cake IMO. I'm sure you can have bad luck with anything though. Sounds like your king is a dud.

I have a Naniwa SS1000. I have to lap it so much it isn't funny. Once it even developed a "worm hole" looking thing that took alot of lapping. Kinda reminded me of something plastic set on the hot coil of a stove. I'm surprised I have much stone left & I ain't even had it a month.
As soon as my DMT's come in, this one will be donated.
I haven't owned alot of stones in my brief career as a wet shaver, but this one was a waste of money.
OP, lap that thing! :)

A possible update...

I actually took my defective King 1k back to Woodcraft ( as under the scope, razors sharpened on it were actually microchipping pretty badly(!)) & was able to exchange it (this time for a 1/6 combo as they were out of the big 1ks). Lapped it & as before, initially the bevels were very smooth & easy to refine--like the old one had been. (On a side note, I do not like the 6k side at all.)

On subsequent razors (this was after more lapping), it felt like the old one--the sharpness disappeared if the edge was refined. Meaning the bevel was not totally set. I tried less pressure, more pressure, slurry, no slurry, dilution, circles, half strokes, spine-leading strokes, single-direction strokes & probably a few more I forget. The bevels would not set (but the first few razors I tried on it sharpened up very well!).

My feeling is, there was a bad batch of these things made @ one time & probably some are in circulation. Some of us were unlucky & we got them. This would be most noticed (on razors) if you're trying to do a 1-stone honing method as that demands a perfectly set bevel that the natural then just refines; no natural finisher that I've ever seen has the power to reset bad geometry from a faulty bevel-setter.

I personally would avoid the King 1k for now & try something else as you might get one of the bad stones that are out there.

I have a King 1k, and hardly ever use it. I haven't had any problems with it, I just prefer the Chosera 1k or the Shapton GS 1k, or even the 2k. If your in the market for a good bevel setter, you can't go wrong with the Chosera. It's a little pricey, so you need to take into consideration how much you'll use it. Lately, I've been using the Shaptons almost exclusively and finishing with a Natural.

Thinking very strongly about picking one up when I have more cash... It's pretty much 1st on my list of future bevel setters. I get in a lot of pretty beat up razors from local barbershops (some with loads of spine wear:(), so for me, it'd be worth it. Shaptons are on the list too for the same reason--consistency & ease of use!

You will find that most veteran honers end up with a 1K Chosera. It's a bit more dough, but a nice hone and worth the investment if you do quite a few bevel sets. I'm a Shapton GS guy & still use the chosera for bevel sets, then 2-16K followed by a natural finisher...works every time.

Yes, I have noticed that with most synthetics, as said a good lapping will get past it. I also agree lapping on a good Diamond Plate as opposed to paper.

I like the idea of flipping the stone and lapping that side. I do that often with Naturals that are worn.

My favorite 1K is still the Choseras, you will not regret the purchase, I like it much better than the Super Stone and a little better that the Norton.

You can’t go wrong with either if money is an issue.

Have a King. Lap it a little each time before I use it. Just a few times over the edges and the same on the main surface.
Just habit.

I wonder if it because it has been soaked too much and is deteriorating? It could be like the Naniwas in that soaking too much causes issues? Never used a King, just a thought.

No, the King 1k is an old school clay-based waterstone. No problem soaking, in fact, lots of guys leave them permanently submerged as they tend to drink water.