Norton 4/8 vs. Naniwa 3/8

Hi everyone, I've been honing for years mostly on coticules (plus DMTs for heavy bevel work, and an escher and/or crox for finishing), but am thinking now of getting a synthetic rig to speed things up, now that the house is full of kids and I rarely have time alone to hone in peace...

Any thoughts on the Norton 4/8 vs. the Naniwa 3/8? I'd love to hear from the super-experienced guys like Lynn and Glen, but also more general impressions from anyone who knows these stones well.

In particular, I'm curious about:

(1) is the Naniwa 8K is as fine as the Norton 8K (I read all the time about guys shaving off the Norton 8K, but rarely do I hear about shaving off the Naniwa 8K — everyone always seems to go on to the 12K....)

(2) are pyramids recommended for the Naniwa? Do you have to watch out for a wire edge on the Naniwa like you do on the Norton?

(3) Is the Naniwa 3K as fast as the Norton 4K? Back when I joined SRP guys were setting bevels on Norton 4Ks all the time (usually but not always with a nagura). Is this just as easy and satisfactory on the Naniwa 3K?

Thanks a lot in advance, guys.

I don't have the popular Norton 4k/8K, but I do have a Naniwa 3K/8K and I can say it works very well and you can use it with the pyramid method with no trouble. I did that a lot of times when I started learning honing about ten years ago and it worked just fine.
As for differences between Norton 8K and Naniwa 8K, I guess there should not be any difference, at least at a grit level, but it can also be that one is faster than the other as this depends on the material with which they are made from.
The Naniwa 3K is faster than Norton 4K, however, depending on the condition of the bevel/razor, it may take a lot of time in order to set a bevel with a 3K, of course taking even more with a 4K.
In case you need to set a bevel on a particularly dull blade, I suggest you to buy a 1K synthetic stone which is of course faster and it is particularly useful in setting the initial bevel before passing to a 3/4K stone.

I have used the Naniwa Super stones the Norton set up and the Naniwa Chosera. The experience I have had with all three set-ups is they will put a good edge on your blade. To save time I did go from the Nortone 4k/8K to the Naniwa SS. I purchased all of the Naniwa SS. I use the 1k 3k 5k 8k and 12k when honing. They seemed to be a little faster and not as much time spent inbetween grit. In my opinion and the difference is small the Naniwa cuts faster than the Norton does. The Chosera set up from Naniwa is my new favorite. I have only been using them for about 8 months now. in my opinion they cut even faster than the Naniwa SS does with great results. Your choice. There is just a little money involved gearing up on those stones. Oh yes............ can someone shave off the 8k nanawa's? The answer is yes......I do just that. I will only go to the 12k if I am honing for someone else. The 8k will shave me like a champ, but some like the more refined edge. Best of luck hope my duce helps out. Stoney

Use both now, and have used both for years, in practical application I find both to work excellently

If I were to only own one of them I find the Norton to be more versatile in my hands..
I owned one before I owned any other Waterstones so I learned to use it better :) I find with slurry the 4k is a bit more effective in my hands for bevel sets this could be just because I had to learn to use it when I first started with waterstones :shrug:

I find the Naniwa SS to be very user friendly because of the "Feel" while honing...


Both will do most anything you ask of them, and I would feel well armed using either of them to keep a Comfortable shaving edge for a lifetime (+) of use...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

...I find with slurry the 4k is a bit more effective in my hands...

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You mean you are using the Norton 4K with slurry? That is slurry with a synthetic waterstone?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by razorguy

You mean you are using the Norton 4K with slurry? That is slurry with a synthetic waterstone?

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I do. I am no seasoned veteran with honing razors, but I generally work a hone starting with slurry and progressively dilute away the slurry with water.

Werks fer me :)

Thank you for your reply. I never use synthetic waterstones with slurry. In my very personal experience, waterstones do not improve with slurry like natural stones do. However, I am not doubting what you say! :)
Just one more question: what do you use to create slurry on a synthetic waterstone? Do you use a natural stone bout or just another waterstone?
In any case, aren't the different grits mixing up therefore creating an undetermined grit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by razorguy

waterstones do not improve with slurry like natural stones do.
what do you use to create slurry on a synthetic waterstone?

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I use a well worn DMT 325 on most, however for a true cutting slurry on the Norton 4k I use the Norton Prepstone... There are vids of all this, and threads about much of it too..

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...rt-slurry.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...iwa-users.html

My response is always the same when people ask about Slurry and Synthetic hones, "You had to learn how to use the Slurry on your Natural didn't you??? How to make it, how to dilute it, how to use it to an advantage" same thing with a Synthetic... You have to take the time to learn how to use it as an advantage.. The good thing is you also don't NEED it, just like a Natural waterstone you can just use clear water and do fine...

I use a DMT to create my slurry.

A person can never prove something doesn't work, but he can prove that it does. ;)

From a results standpoint, the Norton 4K/8K and the Naniwa Super Stone 3K/8K are virtually the same in my opinion. The biggest difference actually is that the Norton 4K has a little more a grainy feeling and the Naniwa Super a softer smoother feeling to me. The 8K's feel a lot alike and behave quite similar although the Naniwa may feel a little softer. That soft is relative as the feedback from the Naniwa's is excellent. I still think more than any other stone, the Naniwa Super Stones feel like they were made for use with straight razors.

If I add the Chosera's into the mix, they also produce very similar results with their biggest difference being a little harder feeling. I use the Chosera 1K the most for setting bevels as I am using pressure at that level and it feels right to me.

I never use slurry's with synthetic stones as the slurry doesn't do anything for me. I have tried it many times, but the consistency in results seems to decrease for me when I do.

The pyramids will work fine with any of these stones, but for me the circle method provides me the most consistency. That may be a little different than for most people as I am using it 4-6 hours a day almost every day of the week. On a razor that is not in bad condition, you can set a bevel with either the Naniwa 3K or Norton 4K.

You can certainly shave off the 8K and it is fun to do this, but I really do like the shave better when I use the 12K as a finish. Every now and then though a razor will fool you and you'll get super great shave off the 8K. An 8K was all I had the first couple years I was learning to hone.

So with all this said, I still think you have to go with what feels the best to you and with the stones that you acquire the most confidence with. Personal preference is really key with honing as with razors. If all I had was either the Norton or the Naniwa Super Stone, I could live with either. I have never found a razor that behaved better with either as well.

Have fun.