The Thumb Tests

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Originally Posted by honedright

Questions:

1) How is a razor passing the HHT different from a razor cutting hair on the face?

2) If your razor can't easily grab and slice a hair sticking out from between your thumb and finger, then why would that same razor perform any differently on your beard?

3) Just as it is with the "thumb tests," Isn't it the "quality" of the HHT that matters?


Scott

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Sott - I'm assuming those questions are for me - apologies if they're rhetorical.

1. I find the hair anchor point is different between the HHT and a shave. And the blade is touching the skin for a shave. And the whiskers on my face, especially when short (like after one day post shave) lie at different angles to the blade when it cuts. I guess I feel the HHT is a simulated shave, and I've had enough experience with simulations in my life to know they can't possibly reflect all the nuances of the real thing;

2. One reason might be the hair you use for the HHT. If it doesn't approximate your facial hair very well, you might not pass the HHT but get a good shave nonetheless;

3. I agree 100%. It's just that, for me, a pass on the HHT, even a high quality pass, isn't the end of the story.

I mean, and this is a genuine question because I'm ignorant of what the honemeisters actually do, but do honemeisters pass the HHT (or any other non-shave test, for that matter) and send back the razor straight away, or do they test shave first? If they test shave, why?

James.

I always test shave. Even if the person I'm honing the razor for is standing right next to me. I don't even ask for permission. After that, if the "client" knows how to shave already I let him shave with the razor. The pinnacle of honing is to hone for each differing beard and facial type. The problem with HHT is that just cutting hair is only half the battle. The point is to be able to pass the edge smoothly along the skin, shave hair, and have no irritation. An overhoned edge passes an HHT pretty well. Shave with it though and you get irritation.

I have no idea what honemiesters do, but I've heard Lynn mention having irritation from honing (your talking lots of razors in a single day).

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I mean, and this is a genuine question because I'm ignorant of what the honemeisters actually do, but do honemeisters pass the HHT (or any other non-shave test, for that matter) and send back the razor straight away, or do they test shave first? If they test shave, why?

James.

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Or, think of what barbers used to do. They wouldn't test shave themselves before shaving each customer would they? How could that barber be sure each customer got a satisfactory shave? After all, his reputation and business probably depended on the quality and consistency of his shaves. All a barber could rely on was the HHT or thumb pad test after stropping. It wouldn't have been a good business practice to do "test shaves" on customers, although it's quite possible that some did...:hmmm: ?

Scott

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

An overhoned edge passes an HHT pretty well.

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Would you define "passes" an HHT?

Does just any cutting of the hair = a pass? Or are there other criteria required for a pass?

Is it possible for a razor to cut the hair, but not pass the HHT?

I imagine that there would be some difference between an overhoned edge and a correctly honed edge. Although, if using the thumb nail test correctly, an overhoned edge would never make it to the stropping stage, would it?


Scott

I don't know, I left the book in my other car.

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Originally Posted by honedright

Or, think of what barbers used to do. They wouldn't test shave themselves before shaving each customer would they? How could that barber be sure each customer got a satisfactory shave? After all, his reputation and business probably depended on the quality and consistency of his shaves. All a barber could rely on was the HHT or thumb pad test after stropping. It wouldn't have been a good business practice to do "test shaves" on customers, although it's quite possible that some did...:hmmm: ?

Scott

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Yes, that's a good point - I guess the old barbers *could* only do non-shave tests. But I wonder if the first couple of customers post-hone might not have been test
cases - I bet the feedback would have been pretty instantaneous on a poor blade!

Anyway, I've got no doubt that a well honed, shave-ready razor will pass the HHT. I'm just not sure the converse is always true. But it's like you guys say, if it works for you that's great.

James.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

But I wonder if the first couple of customers post-hone might not have been test cases - I bet the feedback would have been pretty instantaneous on a poor blade!
James.

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I suppose there are some professional services where something like that might fly, but probably not barber shaves! Not if said barber wanted to stay in business for long.

Of course you hear horror stories about terrible shaves at the barber, but I'm guessing that those are the exceptions.


Scott

I'd just like to say at this point that I'm punching over my weight here, I know. I've only been honing for about a year, and only my own razors. So my points are a mixture of academic speculation and limited experience.

But my feeling is that Sott's question about whether a hair can be cut on the HHT and the HHT still fail is probably key. Personally, I don't feel I have the experience to know the difference, but I wish I did. That's why I use the HHT as a relative measure, not absolute.

James.

There is a giant difference between a barber conducting an update honing in his shop and honing a razor from scratch.

Scott, your full of questions tonight. What gives? You already know the answers.

Like you say, you've been doing this only a year and under no pressure.

I imagine that an apprentice barber (sticking with the barber theme) learned to sucessfully put his test results and outcomes together rather quickly if he wished to remain in the barbering profession for long.

I'm suggesting that we can do the same, although it may take longer to do so. There is nothing quite like "on the job traing" to speed things up though.


Scott