Need some honing tips!

Hello everyone,

I am learning to restore my antique straight razors, and I am trying to learn how to hone. I've watched just about every honing video on youtube. I picked up a new Nortan hone with a 4000 and 8000 grit, and have already fattened each side. I have a razor that has a little nick, but I can't get it out. I started out trying to set the bevel...I think that is what it is called on the 4000 side first, and it started to look good and sharp but still see a little of the nick. I thought maybe I should go on to the 8000 side, but still didn't take it out. The razor is sharp now and does cut hair even with that little ding. It is very very small, but I can still see it in the right light. Do I flatten the blade and then hone it? I have an old Packwood that has a good side ding in it and now I don't know if I just hone it for a long time or I grind the edge down and then hone?

I know it is just my first time and it will take me some time do learn, but anyone have any tips? Oh, also I put two layers of electrical tape on the spine to help give the razor and edge.

You simply need more time on the 4K side.
A 4000 grit stone will be slow, not much metal removed on it.
Keep at it:)

Thank you Birnando!

A 1k would really help with chips, but you can do it with a 4k

If you can make a slurry on the 4k side, you will speed up the process. slowly dilute it to all water before moving to 8k.

Regarding the razor with the larger ding, you can either 'breadknife' the blade until it is flat and then set a new bevel, or continue honing the blade until the chip has been removed. You'll get varying opinions on which course of action to take - more so, you'll need a courser hone than 4k, should you wish to breadknife. I find a cheap diamond hone to work well and it also doubles to allow lapping of waterstone hones. You can hone out large chips but it will not be a quick process, although slurry will help to speed it up. A photo would help to give better advice but if the chip is larger than 1mm, my personal course of action would be to breadknife and then set a new bevel.

You can use 1k sandpaper on a piece of flat glass to rough in the bevel. It will create scratches that will need to be removed with the 4k. It will save you some time. I am not advocating 1k sandpaper to replace a 1k stone now. I would prefer you get one(a 1k stone) but if its not doable this may save you some time.

I'll try and get a picture up later today, and thank you Christel

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Originally Posted by Christel

Regarding the razor with the larger ding, you can either 'breadknife' the blade until it is flat and then set a new bevel, or continue honing the blade until the chip has been removed. You'll get varying opinions on which course of action to take - more so, you'll need a courser hone than 4k, should you wish to breadknife. I find a cheap diamond hone to work well and it also doubles to allow lapping of waterstone hones. You can hone out large chips but it will not be a quick process, although slurry will help to speed it up. A photo would help to give better advice but if the chip is larger than 1mm, my personal course of action would be to breadknife and then set a new bevel.

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If you consider doing the dreaded bread knife I would suggest watching Gssixgun's video on the subject. I will try to grab the link for it. I learned a lot from it and really sped up the process cause; the bread knife part is easy... Resetting the bevel quickly is not!

Here is the link http://youtu.be/btrOjC0S2gM

aa1192 that is a great video and I got sucked into watching it again (I wonder if Glen knows how charismatic he is???)

True bread knifing like that is extreme, I did one once when I was starting out and it took me several hours to reset the bevel on my 5K Naniwa.
(I insisted on not using lower grit stones on a razor until I had my strokes committed to muscle memory, don't ask I am weird like that.)

A slightly raised spine approach is usually good enough to deal with chips and issues and leaves the blade edge in a condition that can be brought back much more efficiently from my experience.

If anyone would like a more detailed explanation let me know, it is not a new technique but I cannot recall a detailed video on it.

There is a short section of a video from the Asheville meet where Randydance touches on it as well.

Woah, woah, woah! (waving arms frantically!)

Halt! Halt! Attempt no shave. Make sure you get rid of that chip. Get a King 1K and really set the bevel(meaninig fast and with no doubt). You can get there with the Norton 4K, I'm just not sure how long it will take you to get there. It depends on the chip.

Also, are you looking at the blade under magnification??

There is actually a second part to that video I should mention also. Yeah raising the spine while trying to put a bevel on a breadknife makes a huge difference in speed. Buy a 1k they are cheap and worth every penny. I suggest the Nani 1k but if you're a baller I hear the Choseras are the way to go.

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Originally Posted by aa1192

There is actually a second part to that video I should mention also. Yeah raising the spine while trying to put a bevel on a breadknife makes a huge difference in speed. Buy a 1k they are cheap and worth every penny. I suggest the Nani 1k but if you're a baller I hear the Choseras are the way to go.

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Not Just raising the spine to put an edge on a breadknife but doing it as the corrective honing method.

A rule of thumb I try to follow Use a tack hammer for tacks and a sledge hammer for concrete.

I only drop as far in grit as I feel I need to in order to accomplish the task at hand, this holds true for the extremity of the technique.

You can always go more extreme, you cannot take back what is done, no part of this hobby has lent itself to being in a hurry from my experience.

Just my .02

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Originally Posted by pfries

aa1192 that is a great video and I got sucked into watching it again (I wonder if Glen knows how charismatic he is???)

True bread knifing like that is extreme, I did one once when I was starting out and it took me several hours to reset the bevel on my 5K Naniwa.
(I insisted on not using lower grit stones on a razor until I had my strokes committed to muscle memory, don't ask I am weird like that.)

A slightly raised spine approach is usually good enough to deal with chips and issues and leaves the blade edge in a condition that can be brought back much more efficiently from my experience.

If anyone would like a more detailed explanation let me know, it is not a new technique but I cannot recall a detailed video on it.

There is a short section of a video from the Asheville meet where Randydance touches on it as well.

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I always find it weird I know who Glen is. He is like a straight celebrity along with a few other famous shavers. I have never formally met the guy, yet I have seen his dining room, laundry room, and shave den. Thank god guys put up vids for people like me.

This is a great video...thank you!

Hello Siguy,

I have looking at the blade under magnification, and later today I'll try and post a pic. So I honed a different place yesterday and was able to shave with it. Still feel it could have come out a little better, but the place that has a little ding in it still have not been able to take it out on the 4000 side of the stone. Also, I have one razor that only the front and middle of the blade are getting honed and the bad end is not. I'm starting to see some bad honing marks and uneven hone marks on the stone. I sand the stone down again, but maybe I'm holding the razor wrong.

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Originally Posted by ksarti1986

Hello Siguy,

I have looking at the blade under magnification, and later today I'll try and post a pic. So I honed a different place yesterday and was able to shave with it. Still feel it could have come out a little better, but the place that has a little ding in it still have not been able to take it out on the 4000 side of the stone. Also, I have one razor that only the front and middle of the blade are getting honed and the bad end is not. I'm starting to see some bad honing marks and uneven hone marks on the stone. I sand the stone down again, but maybe I'm holding the razor wrong.

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You really need to get that ding out. If it were me, I'd go back to the 4K and hone til it is gone, like Birnando said. Takes time.

I really don't know where to start with your statement about the blade with the "bad end". Take picks of both blades, edges and north-south blad orientation pic(to see if the blade has warping), pictures of the stones as well.

We really like pictures :) :)

I understand the costs add up when you're learning, but I sure wouldn't want to try learning restoration and honing at the same time. I wouldn't try resto w/ a 4k if I were well paid. 'Would be nice to be able to get the 'feel' of the blade and the stone when things are as they should be, then tackle the blades that need restorative grinding. You're on a hard path, my friend. Any member near you that would help w/ either some tutorial time or have some lower grit stones they'd let you use? 'Would save alot of work & frustration. Good Luck.

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Originally Posted by pinklather

,,, but I sure wouldn't want to try learning restoration and honing at the same time.

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Amen, brother. That statement divines the truth of the matter in this situation.

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So I just put up some pics

HI Pinklather,

I live in San Diego so if anyone out there would like to teach me a little I would be more than happy to learn.

Hi Christel,

I just put up some pics

Oh wow, now I hadn't expected that!

Very nice pair of razors there - both wedge grinds by the looks of it. Definitely don't breadknife the Packwood razor - those chips can be honed out without too much drama although it'll take extra time. The second one will take a bit longer than a full hollow due to the extra metal but not too long since they. Your coarsest stone is 4k so combined with the chunky mature of those razors, you can expect extra time required to hone them. Consider a 1k stone - it's not essential but they tend to be fairly cheap.

Gssixgun has a good video on youtube on how to hone smiling wedge razors - definitely worth a watch. :)

Also, because the packwood razor is smiled do I curve it when I hone it, and should I buff it out first and then hone?

Hi Birnando,

I posted a few pics...so let me know what you think? I still need to clean up the Packwood though. Should I buff it out first and then hone or hone and then buff?

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Originally Posted by ksarti1986

Also, because the packwood razor is smiled do I curve it when I hone it, and should I buff it out first and then hone?

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A good rule of thumb is to do all sanding, buffing, and cleaning prior to honing. Unless you want to hone it again, and or put fingers and parts at a greater risk.

I picked up a naniwa 1/3k combination stone from amazon of all places for £30 inc a holder so they can be had really cheap

For the smiling profile, aim to follow it while honing. You'll be doing a rolling x-stroke - Glen's video explains it far better than I am able to (He's also a vastly more experienced honer than I am). Since you'll be removing a fair amount of metal, check the blade every 10 strokes or so to make sure you're following the original line but if you're doing the rolling x-stroke you should be fine. When you get the chips removed and are back to clean metal again, use a sharpie marker on the edge to make sure the x-stroke is hitting all of the bevel as you make your way across the hone. I tend to use a layer of tape over the spine when I'm removing a lot of metal such as you will be doing. I'd be inclined to hone with tape throughout the process, especially since the spine stamp is very cool.

Yeah, the restoration work is better done before the honing - Be careful around the spine area and try not to sand it down , you preferably want that to stay the same shape that it currently is. Were I in your position, I'd try to start at higher grits such as 4k and see whether it gave the sort of polish I found acceptable but if you're looking for a higher shine, you'll need to go lower.

Did you have any luck, OP?

I received a John Heiffor wedge today that had a chip in the blade similar to that shown in your photo and honing it out didn't take nearly as long as I expected.

I have not started working on that one yet, but when I do I'll post up another pic.

Here is a video for working with the Norton 4/8 by Lynn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=