Thread: Razor won't take an edge.

My most recent restore was a Frederick Reynolds 6/8 full hollow. Things were going well until last night when I went to hone. The bevel set went without a hitch. 4000/8000 went as planned and when I went to test to see if it could pop hairs, it seemed to grab and tug a bit. I spent a bit more time on the 8000 then moved to 12000. After some time on the 12000 it was still tugging a bit. I moved to canvas then leather strop. At this point the razor was still tugging.

Que the frustration!

square one, 1200 grit, set bevel. Grips fingernail, sticky feeling across thumb. Move on to norton 4000/8000. Same result as before, still tugging. Progress to 12,000, strop canvas then leather. No go.

At a loss at this point. Return to 12,000 naniwa. Then 150 on lops on canvas followed by 200 on leather. Still tugging.

At this point I'm at a loss. I'm not going to send out a restore unless it has a scarry sharp edge.

For the record I use Lynn's circle honing method. Just before this razor I had honed a Boker, George Wosterholm and a Wade & Butcher. All the razors were done on the same day, but I'm only having the problem with the Frederick Reynolds.

My theory at this point is either there is a huge burr on the blade that keeps rolling over, or there's some issue with the hear treating.

Any ideas/help would be greatly appreciated.

-Andrew.

Some razors get odd chips on synthetic finishers. I had a fred reynolds razor that would absolutely not tolerate anything at a normal angle other than a coticule, and the shave wasn't very satisfying with one. Transfer to a shapton pro 15k, a sigma power 13k and it would chip out - you could literally see the tiny chipping if you had the right light (and it would've shown up easily in a microscope).

steeper bevel might help overcome it. At the point where it was fine before, add tape afterwards and do 10 light strokes each on the next finer steps and then test shave it after leather only.

I gave my razor away to a newbie to practice on after warning him about the chipping. I don't know what he's using, but he has no problem with it like I did. It is one of only two razors I ever got that refused to take a nice edge. the other one is japanese and I still haven't figured it out. It'll get the circular file soon.

If a razor is straight, it should never really be that hard to come up with a good edge.

The bevel is not set and you keep going on to refining before it is.

No the bevel is definately set before I move on. If this was my first razor I wouldn't be so sure. I'm 100% it isn't the bevel. It feels like the edge refuses to polish out.

The small chips sounds very familiar. I thought it was burr, by the looks, but without a microscope I can't tell for sure. I'll try to tape the spine.

If your looking down the edge and see what looks like a shiny spot on it you just have more work to get the 2 sides of the bevel to meet. To feel a burr is the same as with a knife. You will feel it on one side and not the other. You should get a loupe. They are like 3 bucks at harbor freight or online. Then you can see chips and grit patterns easy. If your finding chips it may be the blade and not the stone your using. Pits act like chips at the edge. You really need a closer look at what your doing to tell :<0)

I am not the know it all of honing but I have been going through some of the same issues as you describe. I have a few problem hone jobs with varying types of problems. Sometimes I am sure the bevel is set but guess what ? More work and a closer look with a different perspective and walla,,,there is the problem.

Originally Posted by SuperFresh642

The small chips sounds very familiar. I thought it was burr, by the looks, but without a microscope I can't tell for sure. I'll try to tape the spine.

It won't be a burr. It'll be little bits of edge damage. You'd get a burr on a really fine stone only if the razor was too soft. you can do two things:
1) change the abrasive type to something gentler (like a coticule)
2) add tape to increase the angle slightly. The edge might tolerate the synthetics if it's given another degree or two on each side. Do the other work (if you're sure it's not chipping out) with no tape if you're already doing it that way. This is out of laziness - so you can experiment with a few strokes before the stones can do much damage. You'll quickly get a good edge with this if the razor will hold up at a given angle.

When all is said and done, if the razor sharpens well with tape, you can do the whole routine with tape if microbevels turn you off.

I don't strop on anything but plain leather unless I'm using abrasives. I've seen linen and canvas damage edges coming off my 12K Naniwa SS. When I did use linen or canvas, it was 10 to 20 laps maximum. I think 150 laps on canvas is a pretty harsh treatment for an edge that requires no more than smoothing. You might try going to leather only and see if that maintains the edge more gently.

If you're seeing linen and canvas damaging an edge something is very wrong with that picture cause that should not be happening. Maybe the strop is contaminated or the stropping technique with it is off.

Originally Posted by SuperFresh642

square one, 1200 grit, set bevel. Grips fingernail, sticky feeling across thumb. Move on to norton 4000/8000. Same result as before, still tugging. Progress to 12,000, strop canvas then leather. No go.

At a loss at this point. Return to 12,000 naniwa. Then 150 on lops on canvas followed by 200 on leather. Still tugging.

At this point I'm at a loss. I'm not going to send out a restore unless it has a scarry sharp edge.

For the record I use Lynn's circle honing method. Just before this razor I had honed a Boker, George Wosterholm and a Wade & Butcher. All the razors were done on the same day, but I'm only having the problem with the Frederick Reynolds.

My theory at this point is either there is a huge burr on the blade that keeps rolling over, or there's some issue with the hear treating.

Any ideas/help would be greatly appreciated.

-Andrew.

Lynn's circles or straight back and forth laps make no never mind as far as a keen edge goes, circles only shorten the time it takes to set the bevel.

If the bevel is properly set on a 1K hone, you should be able to shave with it... perhaps not comfortably, but it should be shaving.

If you are having problems with getting the edge up to snuff and you think it needs more time on X hone, drop at least one more grit size down... it needs more honing than you think, and don't ask me how I know that....<sigh>

20 to 30 laps on plain leather should be all that is needed for stropping..... I *never* use linen on a freshly honed razor, I just wipe the blade dry with a cotton terry towel, then 20 to 30 laps on my best leather strop and that's it. Stropping on linen is fine *after* a shave, to make sure the edge is completely dry, but I find linen to do more damage than good when dealing with a freshly honed edge.

As this is a Frederick Reynolds and thus a vintage razor, we can assume the heat treatment is fine (assuming no incorrect power sanding was done during restoration) or the razor would have never made it to this century, having been tossed on the refuse pile decades ago, by some previous owner. If the razor was power sanded, it is possible for the temper to have been lost... If any part of the edge turned blue during sanding with a power sander... it's toast.

Good magnification will let you see if there is chipping or pitting in the edge... Sometimes steel gets downright punky with pits and can look fine to the naked eye, but when you look closely with a 30x loupe... you can see the problems. I had one such razor and the bevel was nice and shiny, but when I looked with a loupe, the bevel looked like crumbling feta cheese! Fortunately, I got past the pitting and the edge came around, but only after removing all the bad steel.

A large burr on a razor is visible to the naked eye in bright light. Unless you really used a lot of pressure, it's highly unlikely to have happened. Faint burrs will fold over after a few strokes in shaving, the razor starts off nice and sharp and within a few strokes of shaving it becomes dull and hard to shave with.

Full hollow blades can sometimes be a bit cantankerous, too much pressure or torque on the hones can cause the blade to flex... this results in the edge coming off the hone, making the bevel wider and never honing the actual edge. I've only had this problem with one razor which was a full bellied hollow and I had to use butterfly light strokes or it would not come around. This happened to be a Boker and I don't think the old F.R. razors are that thin... but if you are used to more wedge like blades, a full hollow could be difficult to deal with and in particular if it has had a lot of sanding done to it.

It's hard to troubleshoot your problem without seeing the razor.... the above are just some thoughts I had about problems I have run into.

Regards

Christian