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I've read articles and watched videos on all kinds of lapping methods. Lapping stones, diamond hones and flat tiles with wet/dry sandpaper are just a few of the examples. I'm curious what methods people are using and why. I know what has worked for me but am wondering if I can up my game.
Pete <:'}
Ive used dmts, atomas and wet/dry. Recently got some sic powder and use that on a lapping plate. Im tired of spending money on another diamond plate. My atoma 140 used carefully is toast after one year. I mean it still works, but its toast compared to what it was. Spend 10 or 15 bucks on silicon carbide powder and a $5 granite tile from home depot and your good. You may want to use some wet dry to smooth them out depending on what your stone is. 140 grit is kinda of rough. You can get it in grit up to 1200 i think. But my 140 gets them flat fast and thats what I want.
I do a fair amount of lapping. I lap coming off of a wet saw using a DMT lapping plate. I put a 1/2" thick rubber mat in the bottom of a sink or tub and put the lapping plate on top of that. Enough water to cover an inch over the top of the plate and lap away. I likely do more lapping than the average person due to the rockhound habit I have developed. It works well, however I have a plan to work on a larger motorized lapping system and it will likely utilize silicon carbide grit and a hard plate, most likely AR plate. The question that comes to mind is how much lapping does the average person do. Not likely enough to wear out a good lapping plate if used under water or under running water. They are not that much money and can be obtained from a lot of places, many of the wet shaving shops have them as well as and so does Lee Valley.
Yes I agree but even with light use the plates ''grit'' drops off drastically. With sic powder, its constantly refeshed. Faster cheaper and better imo. I wish someone told me this years ago. And a 12 x12 tile is a big surface so it goes fast. Use what you need and done.
Yes SiC loose grit is the way to go. I use it for all but the softest stones. Using it for the brunt of flattening work saves wear and tear on the diamond plates - which I still use on some stones such as Shaptons, and also for raising slurry on some natural finishers.
I have been using the three stone method if they are reasonably flat to start with, seems to work well on synthetics, and some naturals.
I usually just lap everything with my dmt 325. But it did wear out quite quickly, so I now use some wet dry sand paper.. Does the trick.. I'll try Bills sic powder method soon enough.. I don't hone often enough .. And the stones I have don't require lapping that often my choseras suehiros.. And a few jnat finishers along with my goto stone of the coticule or apache
I just have a small DMT C about 1" by 4". I do very long light strokes and paid about 20 bucks for it. Cheaper then a lapping plate if you don't have a lot of stones to lap. That's another option for ya.
I use the Diamond plate under water as shown by Lynn Abrams. It seems to work great. I know there are other methods out there but that seems to work for me.
I use a Norton lapping stone that I keep flat with a DMT D6C, the DMT is a little small and it gets sticky unless the stones are being lapped under running water. A DMT D8C is more expensive than the two combined, but it works great also.
Wet and dry paper on my kitchen work top for me. Its cheap and effective for the few synthetics I own.
Job done:D
Forgive me if im wrong but ive always thought that if you use a low grit lapping stone on a finishing hone you would leave scratch marks on it which would reduce the effectiveness of it.
I'm not entirely sure, I have heard this before from a fellow who works at the woodworking store I bought my hones from, but I haven't found that to be the case personally. I know several people who have used a D8C even on their really nice finishing stones (Gokumyo 10k and 20k, plus all their Naniwa Supers).Quote:
Originally Posted by markbignosekelly
If you're particularly worried about using a low grit on a finisher then you can get a small D4EF or D6EF (4 and 6 inch extra fine grit DMTs) for cheaper than a full-size or just finish lapping some wet-dry to remove the scratches. It'll be a little quicker and more consistent than just using wet-dry on its own.
Again, I personally haven't felt a difference in the final edge after lapping my finishing hone many, many times.
I have been using my DMT 325 plate for lapping all my Naniwa Super Stones including my 12K finisher and did encounter the infamous scratch marks in the beginning. Turns out that the DMT plates may have some high diamonds when new that need knocking down to rectify this problem. After I did that no further issues over the last couple of years. Would this be what you were thinking of? If you do a search like "DMT scratches" you should get quite a few threads on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by markbignosekelly
Bob
I've been experimenting with silicon carbide powder recently as a polishing compound - i.e. used on mops. It's readiliy available in grits up to 1200 and does not cost much at all, so anyone worried abouit scratch marks on their hones could give it a try. I find it more effective and faster than using equivalent grade wet and dry but beware the lower grits will dish a marble tile so be prepared to replace whatever tile you use every now and then.
As Ive allways used wet and dry i haven't put much thought into lapping stones to be honest but seeing this thread piqued my interest.
Worn diamond plates are better for stone surfacing. New diamond plates are bad news for harder stones but not such a big deal for softer stones since the softer stones will give up particles and revert to their "default" surface pretty quickly. The diamond plates wear in over time and the individual diamonds round over/flatten to where they leave a much finer finish over time. Coarse lapping is a much bigger issue on harder stones like Arkies, Charnley Forests, C12ks, etc.
I prefer loose grit SiC on pretty much all but soft stones. It leaves a nice sharp surface that cuts well but if you lap to high enough grit still gives a very nice finish. Lapping a very hard stone with a worn diamond plate pretty much leaves you with a glazed over stone in comparison. It can cut a bit finer in some cases but also much slower.
If just lapping your synthetic stones between razors then I would use a diamond plate (have d8c and atoma 400&1200). If lapping harder naturals I would go the sic as you will kill the diamond plates and it will take ages with wer and dry.
Regarding scratch marks your right, the 120 I have does leave them and the surface of the stone is very rough, but the initial flattening is easy enough, I have the atomas that I use for cleaning up these scratches. But 4 atoma plates is heavy. thats about $400. 4 pounds of sic and a $5 granite tile would be enough to lap for a long time. Ive seen it sell for as low as $15 for a grit. So 4 grits is a little more than half of 1 atoma, Now I always did my initial lapping with wet/dry on hard naturals, and the plate dies anyway. Not complaining though but I was expecting to get more out of it.
I use a well worn dmt 325 grit on all my hones, synthetic and natural. A thing to note is diamonds are the hardest material known to man, so using them to flatten hones is not going to "round" them, ever. What is happening is they are breaking loose from the steel plate they are attached too. I think a lot of people who say they have completely killed a diamond plate really havent. I could be wrong, but I've used the heck out of mine, and it is still very good at flattening hones. I use the same dmt to hone razors that are severely chipped and also on knife blades that have rough edges. I personally will never fool with sand paper, tiles, Sic powder etc. The diamond plate is always flat, and lasts a very long time. As previously stated, when it is brand new you should always use it on something other than a hone to knock off all the "loose" diamonds. Just my opinions, YMMV.
I've also used a well worn 325 for quite a while, and it works very well. I do want to point out how great Jimmy's idea of rubber and submerging is, I do the same thing and I find it a lot easier.
The most worn 325 is the best tool ever for me, as stated above. JMO
$10 diamond hone from Aldi, seems to be working OK.Attachment 193695
You are wrong, in this case. Contact DMT and ask them yourself if you don't believe me. The diamonds certainly do dull and flatten or round over, over time. This is why the diamond plates slow way down with heavy use on hard stones. It is certainly possible to pull diamonds out of the nickel matrix but it is not the reason that the diamond plates slow down very rapidly when lapping hard stones. This "break-in" period is the diamond abrasive particles dulling. Have a chat with any machinist that runs a surface grinder with a diamond wheel dresser and ask if diamond will round over or flatten. Diamond is the hardest substance known to man, sure. But it isn't kryptonite. It definitely wears.Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
This one got my attention. I've also seen something like this at Harbor Freight for around the same price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackers
Anybody else use these?
Pete <:-}
I have a set and find then too small for any real use IMO. Theyre mounted on plastic and I dont trust that they will not warp in your hand while your using them.
Are you still using this Diamond hone as a lapping system? If so, what are your thoughts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackers
I use most all the methods to lap, have a 16" diamond disk, the light weight diamond hone which looks similar to cracker's pic above, 3 grades were only 19.00 off ebay some years ago, they have been glued to supportive backings, so far, they have held up well, made with Monocrystaline diamonds as DMT does. The wet or dry works well but is getting way too expensive for what it is, I have done paint and body work since high school and have watched the prices get ridiculous for any form of abrasives.
I'll probably be shot for blasphemy or something but it depends on what I'm lapping. I've got a Norton lapping stone to get things roughly flat. Then I'll move to wet or dry paper until the 2k mark, or it's polished where I want it. If I feel the need to go beyond that, like my Guangxi river stone, I'll use my Norton 4k/8k to polish it further. Or if I don't feel like using paper I'll use the Norton stones from 220 up to 8k. I figure I've already got em, as long as I don't find a way to put them too far out of flat I'm not hurting anything by using them.
To lap a stone flat, what you're lapping with has to be flat, that's why so many of us use the DMT 325 or a large piece of flat tile with wet/dry to lap. With a new DMT running the side of a screwdriver shaft or the back edge of a flat kitchen knife over it some will knock off the high diamond particles. Works or me, but I only have synthetic stones (Naniwas).
For very hard stones I use SIC powder, usually 200 followed by 400. Then I go to a well-worn 600 DMT and BBW. On Jnats I bring the surface up further with mejiro followed by tomonagura.
On synthetics I use the Nawiwa 220 lapping stone and the red Chosera dressing stone that comes with the 1K, this combination has worked for me.
Before I forget, I hate lapping stones.
I have some SiC grit coming in, can't wait to try it out :)
