"Sharpness" - is it a bevel issue?

I should say one thing, cos he doesn't really mention it and it's extremely important. This "warp test" holds true only for truly straight razors. Razors with a smile cannot be evaluated this way. If you try that with a smiley, it would not end very well ;)

Sure, Bob, you are absolutely correct. I also feel it is easy to adjust my strokes on the hone to save some wear on the spine. There are pros and cons to both approaches, just depends what's important to each individual.

I find it's important for a new honer to understand the geometry properly and probably learn on a correct blade, before trying funky things on problematic blades. There's no harm in trying of course, I also learned "backwards". I did make sure I didn't use anything valuable in my trial and error days.

Yup, Matt’s videos are great, as are the videos of many of other members here.

At a recent meet after spending a day hands on, honing a bunch of razors, watching several other guys hone and asking questions all day, a new guy said, “There is so much little stuff that you never get, watching a honing video”. Not to mention actually doing it, while some one watches and makes small corrections and recommendations on your technique.

I have taught a few folks to hone and everyone has said, “It’s not as easy as a video makes it look”. Probably because the razor is never the razor the guy in the video is honing.

And then there’s the whole Natural stone issue. Your coticule may or may not perform like mine or Matt’s, hence the term,YMMV.

Yea, videos are great, but not the same…

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Originally Posted by Srdjan

I should say one thing, cos he doesn't really mention it and it's extremely important. This "warp test" holds true only for truly straight razors. Razors with a smile cannot be evaluated this way. If you try that with a smiley, it would not end very well ;)

Sure, Bob, you are absolutely correct. I also feel it is easy to adjust my strokes on the hone to save some wear on the spine. There are pros and cons to both approaches, just depends what's important to each individual.

I find it's important for a new honer to understand the geometry properly and probably learn on a correct blade, before trying funky things on problematic blades. There's no harm in trying of course, I also learned "backwards". I did make sure I didn't use anything valuable in my trial and error days.

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You can have smiling blades with a warp/twist to them too, got a few myself. They too can be honed with the proper stroke once you recognize the condition and that the blade is a smiler.

Yes, it would be best to learn on a true/straight blade before tackling one with problems, that is a given.

Bob

This discussion reminds me of reading all about how to swim, watching video's about technique, proper stroke, breathing, and gathering knowledge about all aspects of the theory behind swimming.

Then you toss the person in the pool, and after a minute or two, pull them out so they don't drown.:D

thanks Phrank :beer1:

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Originally Posted by Damo

thanks Phrank :beer1:

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Was fun reading your OP - exactly my same experience....sometimes I got a bevel fairly quickly, other times took me hours, and just recently, an old W&B FBU I had sanded and soaked the scales, just couldn't get it, so after two dedicated attempts, sent it out to a pro.

I particularly found your illustration of the 5k interesting, as I've had the same thing happen a couple of times, and thanks to your post, I now realize that that probably means my bevel wasn't set....less reading, more practice for me.

Hi Damian nice to see you are starting your journey into the world of honing It's going to be both rewarding and equally frustrating at times, whenever I'm asked I just try my best to simplify the whole proccess of honing a razor from start to finish, and my advice to anyone new to the task would be all your focus and efforts should be getting the razor to shave the hairs on your arm with ease from toe to heel on the bevel set 1K stone, now If you can achieve this and believe me this is the most difficult part you are almost over the line because the next 3 or 4 stones in your progression are all about refinement, good luck Damian there's no quick fix if you want to complete a marathon you got to put the miles in.

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

Hi Damian nice to see you are starting your journey into the world of honing It's going to be both rewarding and equally frustrating at times, whenever I'm asked I just try my best to simplify the whole proccess of honing a razor from start to finish, and my advice to anyone new to the task would be all your focus and efforts should be getting the razor to shave the hairs on your arm with ease from toe to heel on the bevel set 1K stone, now If you can achieve this and believe me this is the most difficult part you are almost over the line because the next 3 or 4 stones in your progression are all about refinement, good luck Damian there's no quick fix if you want to complete a marathon you got to put the miles in.

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+1 to all of that, especially on the simplification remark.

Perhaps to get a more consistent bevel test, OP could try the cherry-tomato-peel-cut test, found in Matt's bevel video..

A few more things to try:

1. On the 5K hone, try switching up the leading ends - lead with the heel for a number of strokes, then lead with the toe for a number of strokes. This will likely improve the cutting action and get rid of those 1K marks faster and with more consistency.

2. Spend a bit more time on the 8K hone. It's hard to say how much more, best would be to examine the edge under a loupe (or did you say you were getting a 'scope?)

Hope that helps somewhat.

The topic of honing reminds me of someone in another hobby (woodworker) who has made his living working only with hand tools. He always gives a few points of direction and then says "there's a lot of subtlety in it".

People think everything is a recipe when they first start out (I did, too). The woodworker I'm mentioning has said several times, when we help someone learn to walk, we give them the general idea of what they're to do. But, we don't tell them to put one foot exactly 6.5 inches in front of the other with a toe pointed out 5 degrees and the direction of travel within plus or minus two degrees. We let them gain experience.

Honing is like that. If you hone 50 razors and observe and adjust and still have problems, then that's not too normal. Otherwise, you just have to trust that your hands and eyes (and brain) will make you better at it with repetition. Much like walking. It's so much easier to do with a little bit of experience.

Sorry for the delayed reply gentlemen - been on an awful run of night shifts. Appreciate the comments, and thanks for all the useful links. I've picked up a loupe - both 60 and 10 mag. Going to have another session this afternoon with a friend.