I have a Dovo Bismarck with an uneven bevel. One side is very slight. To even this out should I start on the 1000 with equals laps on both sides or concentrate on the light side.
Thanks.
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I have a Dovo Bismarck with an uneven bevel. One side is very slight. To even this out should I start on the 1000 with equals laps on both sides or concentrate on the light side.
Thanks.
That depends on why your bevel is uneven. If you look almost straight down at the bevel so you are looking at the tip of the apex and look all the way along the length of it, are there any sparkles or very bright lines? If so the bevel if not completely set. Another possibility is that the edge is not straight as in it has a smile or a frown. If your blade has a smile you will need to fix your stroke to get the bevel even and fully set. If it has a frown then there are ways to correct that too. Working on the 1K will fix that and perhaps the shoulder of your bevel at the same time. If it is not it may be uneven because your grind wavers a little bit. You can straighten the bevel with a 60 degree heel leading stroke to some degree. It is likely a cosmetic issue, How does the blade shave? A picture would be very handy.
I have several razors with uneven bevils, most due to my own hands! However, if they shave fine I am able to ignore it unless it is really bad. Where are the pictures:)?
If you mean that the bevel on one side of the blade is narrower than on the other side of the blade there might be something off physically with the blade. Say the spine comes down lower to where the hone comes in contact one one side than the other. The side with the lower contact point would have a narrower bevel.
Photos of both sides of the blade and a head on shot would probably help.
Bob
I will try some photos later today, after I get home. Razor shaves okay but does not seem to hold an edge well. Purchased from SRD and only refreshed maybe three times on a 12000 Nani.
Yup, post some photo before you do anything, it may not matter if it shaves well.
Lay the blade on a flat surface and compare both sides, to see if the edge and spine touch the surface across the whole blade.
Usually, if the bevel is wider on one side, it is caused by a slight warp and sometimes honing on half the hone can resolve it, as said.
Or the grinding is uneven - if there's more steel on one side it will show as a wider bevel. If the width of the bevel is variable along the same side, that could indicate a problem with the spine - but if the bevel is consistent - but wider on one side of the blade than the other, that suggests uneven grind to me.
Was the uneven bevel present from when you purchased it or did it develop as you honed the razor? Im thinking this probably developed as a result of the factory bevel set on the power wheel they use. Many razors have subtle warps and geometry issues straight out of the box and can be corrected with appropriate metal removal or you could build up with tape and even the spine by wearing into to the high spots on the tape. Depending on what your pics will show. It may not be anything to worry about and purely a cosmetic issue. As far as edge retention that may just be a factor of the steel Dovo uses. My Dovo edges never last as long as say my T.I.'s and I usually attribute that to C-135 being really hard stuff. Whatever the reason i'm sure our collective will figure it out.;)
I see this issue often, on new Dovo and TI razors, they are always warped, though as said other issues can cause this.
But as said, depending on the bevel, may not affect the shave. A quick check, will tell you.
You may want to talk to the folks at SRD, since you may still have a coupon for a honing and/or they can give you advice.
Here are three fairly poor photos. Took a bunch more but none really came out great.
The plain side has more of bevel width than the Davy side. Looking straight down at the edge, there are no shiny spots.
Pending advice, I'm leaning towards using my 8k in a normal manner and see how it looks, the decide if I go down to the 5k or just finish on the 12k.
Thanks
Not really much of a bevel there, so it shouldn't be too difficult to even it out. An 8k isn't going to do much as far as evening it out, it's just for polishing a bevel that's already there. I'm sure if you told SRD about the issue they would at least look at it, and correct it.
I'm sure they would, I have had pretty good success with honing in the last 8 months or so and would prefer to just do it myself. I have found that getting a BBS from a edge you created is a feeling that is hard to beat.
Just not sure if I should work the short sided bevel a little first and then equal laps or just maybe go down in grit, starting with even laps.
I do not see any issues with the blade itself.
So is your concern that one side has more of a bevel than the other, or that the bevel is uneven from heel to toe on one side of the blade? Both are relatively easy fixes. Just hone one side with less bevel more, inspecting every ten strokes or do until it looks even with the other side. If the bevel is uneven on one side between heel and toe, just apply slightly more presume to even out the "lesser" side. I would use the 1k, to reset the bevel, then progress through finishing hone. The blade looks great, I've been wanting a dovo bismark!
The bevels on each side are even heel to toe, one side is less than the other.
Does the spine and edge sit on a flat surface evenly?
Is there spine wear on the center of the spine on the 2nd photo?
Yes each side lays perfectly flat on a granite plate.
No spine wear.
How wide is the bevel on each side? I cannot see the bevel on the photos.
How many layers of tape are you using? And How does it shave?
No tape, after refreshing on the 12k it shaves great, but the edge does not last very long, much Les than my TI or Aust.
Put a layer of tape on the spine, Ink the bevels and do 10 laps on each side, on the 12K, with pressure, look at the bevel.
If it is larger than it is now, Strop on linen or leather and do 20 laps with light pressure.
If you get micro chipping, lightly joint the edge and do another 20 laps.
The 12k is not going to even out the bevel. Use that same approach, but on the 1k. Then progress up as you normally would in a honing progression.
If it is a Super Stone 12k, it absolutely will. The super stone can be a very aggressive stone with pressure. And with a thin bevel like that, a Super Stone will easily widen the bevel enough to get a good edge.
If it does not, then drop down in grit. The razor is shaving, and the OP is learning the honing process with a problem razor. He has nothing to lose by going slow and a lot that can be learned.
Razor looks good and you say its geometry is good bevel on the plain side looks even I cant see whats going on on the decorated side. But you say its edge degrades quicker than T.I. or Aust. I think your razor is working as intended. If you want to even out the bevels you can do that with some selective honing until its even then progress with alternate strokes to finish if it makes you happy but its not necessary and i don't think it will improve your edge life. The quality of the steel and its edge retention abilities I think are more or less a fixed attribute. A TI is for me more laborious to hone right but i have to do it much less often. I think its just the nature of the beast. But give it a shot we all like to fix our razors even if they don't need it. That's why this is a hobby.:)
There's definitely more than one right way to do it. Try the 12k approach, if that doesn't work progress down in grit until the bevel satisfies you. In my experience, trying to alter a bevel with a finishing stone is not the approach I would take, however if it works then kudos.
So much advice, so little reason.
So far, I have not read of any evidence of this being a "problem razor."
Functionally, a difference in widths of bevels makes virtually no difference. Aesthetically, you can only see one side at a time. If the edge is not as long lasting as some other razors, then hone or strop to correct that, but don't waste your time fixing a bevel width "problem" that does not exist.
I have a ss12k, and I'm not trying to get into an argument over this. I'm just confused as to how you think it can set a bevel at all, much less quickly. Does it polish an already refined edge quickly, yes, no argument there. I just don't see it removing enough steel to properly set a bevel. To the OP, if it's a cosmetic issue it's not that big of a deal to have one side less beveled than the other. If it bothers you enough to need to fix it, then fix it by doing more honing on the side that needs it.
No worries its doable the 12k is very slow but it does have enough cutting power just takes time. I think that was his point to keep it slow and controlled and monitor how the bevel develops. Err on the side of caution if you will.
A while back I posted a similar thread about the 12K. I have had my 12k for several years and it has seen a lot of razors.
So I did this experiment and remove a couple chips from a razor using only a 12k Super Stone and documented it here.12k chip removal /bevel setting.
If the difference really bothers you, then there is plenty of advice posted already, so I'm not going to add to that. What I will say is, if the razor is shaving ok and has a good edge, then I wouldn't worry about the bevel size being different. The edge is obviously the most important aspect. The bevel could be different due to a miniscule difference in the spine width, being wider one side than the other. It wouldn't need to be very much at all to alter the way the razor lies flat on the hone. If that is the case, you'd have to take some metal from the spine (the slightly wider side) to get the bevels equal. If the razor shaves ok, is it worth the hassle? Are you risking ruining your razor?
Thanks all for the replies and advice. It really needs a refreshing and so I was just looking for some input on the uneven bevel. I think I will just do a refresh and possibly a little more aggressive on the "short" side. I'd just as soon have the bevel even but if there is no real effect from that than I'm not going to worry too much. As this razor does not hold the edge as long as my others, I thought perhaps the short bevel may have contributed to that.
Thanks all.
I'm with Ron here, if it shaves fine there probably is no problem with the edge geometry as such. Touch it up like you would normally (very light pressure) and check your stropping. Stropping is most likely the problem if your edge doesn't last as long as it should. The steel is probably the same steel as your Aust, so it's probably not that.
Don't think it's the stropping as I can keep the edge very good on my Aust and TI for a long time, this one, not so much.
Just did my normal refresh on the Naniwa Super Stine 12000. No attention to the uneven bevel. Just a limited amount of no pressure laps until it felt good gliding on the stone. Then 50 laps on linen and 120 on leather. Will shave with it and then take it from there.
If it seems good, I'll leave it alone. If not, I'll drop down to the 8000 and try again.
I do not use tape and don't think SRD does either when they did the initial honing.
Quite frankly, I am surprised to hear this came from the SRD with an uneven bevel. Have you tried to contact them and ask why they left it this way? Perhaps they didnt see any issues with it, but according to this, there ARE issues.. just think if you seek their advice, you might get a better response, maybe even with instructions on what to do.
What I'd do if this bothered me is, I would probably drop to mid range and try to even it out. Maybe even to 1K.... this is the advice you pretty much got already, so just confirming ;) Good luck!
Just finished my shave, 4-passes (my normal) and BBS. Felt just a little harsher and a couple spots XTG did not seem to run as easy as normal. Did another 40 laps on linen (premium fabric, actually) and 100 on the leather.
Will use it again tomorrow after another 80 or 100 on leather and then I'll re-evaluate.
Thanks all.
How the bevel looks is not an “issue”, if it takes and holds an edge. Most of the new Dovo’s and TI’s, I have honed, do not have perfectly even bevels, it’s just the way they are made now. It is not the job of a honer to perfect bad grinding or heat treatment warp, just hone it. When you take your car in for a tune up, you do not expect them to blueprint the motor…
For most, it will never be an issue, and only, us obsessives that see it as a problem that may or may not be corrected without altering (grinding) the spine. So first, do no harm, and progress slowly. A new razor with a factory bevel is or should be flat and even and only need a slight adjustment, on a high grit stone to correct the bevel angle, as they are not honed with the spine on the hone.
If it was honed properly, which this one has been, it really should need very little, the bevels should be flat and at the proper angle. Ink on the bevel should quickly tell you that. What you are doing is not a simple honing, as you are attempting to correct an issue and put an edge on it. It is not a regular honing and should not be approached as such. Use all the tools available to you, to make the repair or at least find the source of the problem.
Pressure is always an issue for new honers, and not using enough is as much a problem as too much, especially if you are doing correction work.
Before you drop down to the 8K look at the edge, with at least 60x lighted magnification. Make sure you are honing all the way to the edge and the full height of the bevel,(use Ink).
If it does not shave well, you have to determine if the problem is the razor, the stones or the honing process. High magnification will tell you.
When you are new to honing always tape a spine, especially a decorated or gold wash spine, because being new, (and obsessive) you will do more laps and generally use too much pressure and needlessly grind the spine. A single layer of tape will preserve the spine, once you have mastered honing… then decide if you want to continue to tape, when you can achieve the same edge with fewer strokes.