Tape wear and Bevel

Hey all, just after some advice. This is my first wedge and I'm just hoping you could sneak a peak at the bevel. One side (the front) is quite even, it narrows as it reaches the heel. The rear side however has a section where the bevel is double, nearly triple the length of the rest of it. I have included some shots where you maybe be able to see the tape wear as well along the spine.

I'm curious as to what is causing this and is it an issue? The grind is near wedge, you can see some light through the razor as it's laying flat on the hone. Hones have been lapped, currently using 1K Suehiro ceramic. It was cutting hairs on my arm well so I gave it a bit of time on the 3K and is now cutting hairs more smoothly. Is it possibly the grind itself causing the skewed section or is something amiss? More tape?
I'm wary of taking the tape away entirely because these stones really cut fast and the spine would start or thin out rather quickly...

Cheers lads!
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It's not from the tape. That difference you will never see. It looks to me like your blade was reground at some point and the wide bevel is due to the thickness of the blade in that area. In other words ... it wasn't ground even all the way.
Where the bevel is wide, the blade needs to be thinned.

OR.... The blade is warped. Which would show equally the opposite on the other side. Sort of does. A straight edge held next to it will show the warp.

This is all off the top of my head but what I see at first.

I think the blade could be warped... I didn't have a straight edge handy but the edge of the desk shows a slight convex in the side with the thicker bevel section.

What sort of issues will that cause? I've been fairly happy to move it to the 3K and would happily continue up until it is shave ready. I'd happy shave with it as long as I'm satisfied with the honing progression.

Would you recommend doing so or nah?

If you check the apex with a loupe and all is well there then the issue is purely cosmetic. You can create a spot like that with a bunch of pressure trying to get a stubborn spot. By adding the pressure though you can never get the trouble spot and you push it a little more and it just cuts above the edge and compounds the problem. It is an unlikely scenario in this case. I think Pups hit it on the most likely case. A lot of old razors have been reground, especially the wedges.

My theory is that you may have an uneven relationship between the spine and the edge. If that is true, you'll have to set the bevel without tape on the spine. The spine and the edge have to be parallel for a good bevel set. If you tape the spine, you'll never correct any deficiencies on it.

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Originally Posted by andrewmurray86

What sort of issues will that cause? I've been fairly happy to move it to the 3K and would happily continue up until it is shave ready. I'd happy shave with it as long as I'm satisfied with the honing progression.

Would you recommend doing so or nah?

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Andrew, if you've got the two bevels meeting and the edge passes the thumb nail test for smoothness, I'd go on to the finer hones. The appearance of the bevel, while not ideal in this case, is always secondary to the shaving ability of the razor. As the other guys have said, who knows what sort of regrinding or general edge abuse has been inflicted on this razor in the past. About half of the wedges I've honed have had issues of this sort in greater or lesser degrees and they've all finished up able to cut those whiskers down to the skin!

I agree that it's probably uneven grind, but if you look at the third picture you can see that the abnormal shaped area of the edge is mirrored in the tape. Looks like a bubble?

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Originally Posted by Maladroit

Andrew, if you've got the two bevels meeting and the edge passes the thumb nail test for smoothness, I'd go on to the finer hones. The appearance of the bevel, while not ideal in this case, is always secondary to the shaving ability of the razor. As the other guys have said, who knows what sort of regrinding or general edge abuse has been inflicted on this razor in the past. About half of the wedges I've honed have had issues of this sort in greater or lesser degrees and they've all finished up able to cut those whiskers down to the skin!

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Passes the TNT, slightly cuts in, no jumping, smooth along the way. I'm glad to hear that it's not uncommon, I'm pretty chuffed to have my first wedge.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

If you check the apex with a loupe and all is well there then the issue is purely cosmetic. You can create a spot like that with a bunch of pressure trying to get a stubborn spot. By adding the pressure though you can never get the trouble spot and you push it a little more and it just cuts above the edge and compounds the problem. It is an unlikely scenario in this case. I think Pups hit it on the most likely case. A lot of old razors have been reground, especially the wedges.

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What do you mean by check the apex Rez?

Check the apex= Use a loupe to look straight down on the edge, at the cutting edge itself, not the 'sides' of the bevel. The point of the triangle so to speak.

I have a Blue Wonder that just won't take a bevel, have looked at the apex many times on that... I haven''t tried tape on it though. My brother currently has it as a template for some stainless scales I want fabricated for my Birko Razor... Which he also has. I should get them back me thinks. I doubt he's going to get around to doing them before a while, God love him!

As said above, as long as the bevel is good (two sides meet at a point) unevenness is cosmetic. I have an old soviet razor with a wide spot in the bevel due to funky grinding. Hey comrade this razor meets the 5 year plan goal, lets hit the vodka!

As to Stainless scales, You may find the razor very heavy and poorly balanced. Metal scales are rare...I have a couple Robesons in aluminum but the gauge is .O2thin.

I have seen this on unevenly ground razors. Take some measurements of the blade thickness at the spine and edge, probably poor grinding or heavy sanding.

Yea, pass on the Stainless Scales, have honed a lot of AOS stainless scaled razors and they are clunky and way out of balance.

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Originally Posted by andrewmurray86

Passes the TNT, slightly cuts in, no jumping, smooth along the way. I'm glad to hear that it's not uncommon, I'm pretty chuffed to have my first wedge.



What do you mean by check the apex Rez?

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The apex being the point of the bevel. As long as the apex is formed nice and even and coming to a nice sharp point then it is most likely a grind issue. It is after all the apex that we shave with.

I think that's likely to be poor grinding of the hollow. Measure the blade thickness immediately around the wide bevel and compare it to the same place further along - If the area where the bevel is wider is thicker, it tells you that the grind was off and the only way to even the bevel up is corrective grinding - or lots of hand sanding.

If you can see uneven wear on the tape, that may indicate a problem with the spine.

Move on to finer hones and see what happens, I've had a bunch of Wade & Butchers with uneven bevels and they all shaved fine. Don't get to aggressive trying to correct as you can't put metal back on if you go to far with it. You could also try more tape layers, some wedges might need 2+ layers

It's very common to have a slight warp. The bevel is big at the heel and small at the toe on one side and opposite on the other. Like others have said, if the bevel is complete on both sides and meeting at the apex the issue is only cosmetic. You can modify your strokes on the hone to even it out, but don't over do it. You can do toe or heel forward strokes and shift pressure accordingly. Whatever strokes you choose to go with, stick with them throughout your progression. I generally watch a blade closely during bevel setting and make these adjustments early in the process to keep bevels small and even. Too much pressure will really exaggerate the wide parts of the bevel, especially on thinner grinds.

Interesting, I am restoring my first wedge and am having nearly identical problems. Gssixgun has a YouTube video for honing a wedge. Using his techniques has been helping. I am thankful for the timely advice.

What type of strokes are you doing on that blade? Circles and the X? Maybe try the X with the 45 degree angle or rolling X stroke? Exhaust all methods to see if maybe those help. Use a magic marker to on the edge too. Warpage could be an issue as was pointed out. Seems the blade has a very slight smile to it. Just adding my 2 cents worth.....

Good luck

Slight smile indeed :) I proceeded up the hones and it's a great shaver! I think it was a grind issue. The rest of the bevel is even and it wasn't too hard to get there.

I used quite a number of strokes to get it there.

Last night I picked up and old no name solingen wedge, the spine at the toe end was very worn, about .035 so 3 layers of tape and 4 hours later the bevel is set, 4 edge kills, 2 times back to 1K, Talk about learning and teaching ones self, the old wedge will be teaching me for some time to come...

For guys that are newer to honing, I really think you'd do best to learn with hollow grinds. The thinner the better. You'll see results much faster and be less likely to get burnt out.

True words BeJay, the old wedge is a learning blade that cost me 0. I own no new razors and only 2 that are outstanding shavers, the wedge I want/need because of a very heavy beard.

The "Science of sharp" has clued me and many others into the shortest route to Keen using pasted strops, it's all there if you read close, but some refuse to believe their own eyes when reading and seeing the ample proof that gets you to the finest micro-convex edge for a smooth shave, keener than even the Feather DE blade. Can anyone stress enough the importance of proper stropping ??

Just keep in mind that in the Science of Sharp, he is only testing sharpness on a straight razor.

In practical razor honing, Sharpness or Keenness is only half of honing a straight razor, for shaving. Smoothness and comfort is the other half that knife and tool sharpeners do not have to contend with.

So, yes Diamonds will get you to sharp quickly, but you won’t be shaving off them.

It is an interesting site, but all the theory does not translate to a smooth shaving razor. I think it will confuse a lot of new straight shavers and honers, because they will be missing a big chunk of straight razor honing.