Are there any reliable ways to tell when you have used your bevel-setting hone enough to go to the next finer stone?
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Are there any reliable ways to tell when you have used your bevel-setting hone enough to go to the next finer stone?
Often it's a matter of feel, but I have noticed that when the water is very thinned down, almost dry, but runs up over the blade as i move it over the stone, that's a pretty good sign, assuming you've got the blade in good contact with the stone. For it to hug the stone so closely that the water has to run up and over, that bevel needs to have become pretty fine. This doesn't apply to the time when there is a good bit of water on the stone, but toward the time you might spray a bit more on. I also note if there are sections of the blade where the water doesn't flow up and over, often near the heel.
When you can shave with your razor off the 1K hone, it's ready to start moving up the grit progression.
Have a look at this thread: beginners-1k-shave
Regards
Christian
That makes sense, LawsonStone. - I did look at the other thread but they are stropping quite a few times before shaving. I don't plan on stropping between hones.
The test I use is the TPT; if the blade feels sticky the next test is see if will cut arm hair. If it cuts arm hair the entire length of the blade its time to move on to the next hone.
The 1K shave was an exercise to demonstrate how far one needs to go on the 1K before bothering to move on to the next grit in your progression. If the blade does not have a fully formed edge, there is no point in going to a finer grit hone, once the bevels meet correctly along the entire edge, it's time. Stropping was only done in that exercise to smooth the edge enough for the shave, not required in honing normally, as you just move up the grits until you are finished and then strop before shaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin2515101
Thumb pad test, arm hair shave test, visual check by sighting down the edge, loupes etc. are all valid ways to test, for the honer who has learned to use these tests in his/her progression. It is something an individual will have to develop as they learn honing. What works for one person may not work as well for the next.
Example, I could tell you that I use my moustache for testing edges.... It works for me, but if you don't have *my* moustache, it will likely not be a useful test for you. The 1K shave tests proves to the honer that indeed, they have properly set the bevel with the 1K hone and that it is sharp enough to move on to the next hone in the progression. The remaining hones are used to remove/reduce the scratches made by the initial coarse bevel set hone and that part goes rather quickly.
Regards
Christian
For me, if it can cut arm hair very easily at skin level across the whole length of the blade
Thanks for the good answers. How do you know on the next two stones (e.g. 4k & 8k) since you're already passing these tests at 1k? If there is no specific answer, how many passes should be made on the middle stones?
For me (and your tests may vary) I test 4k at skin level and it should feel more crisp when it cuts arm hair, for 8k it should start to tree top arm hairs and just touching arm hair at skin level it will fall over. I also check often with magnification, 8k will leave an almost mirror finish
For passes, I do sets of 20 and recheck
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin2515101
If you look around the forum there have been a lot of threads on this, because it is the most important part of honing. I had a quick look but could not find the pictures I am looking for. There are a few threads with great pictures through a loupe as to what a set bevel looks like. There is also a pretty good video on youtube by toxic? that explains spotting a poorly set bevel using a bright light. Due to the difference in peoples hair it is one of those test that also needs to be calibrate to your hair. It is a quick and easy test once you know what you are looking for. If you go to a meet you can see what others are showing you in a loupe and then test it on your arm hair. At home by yourself it is a lot of trial and error but getting a loupe and beginning to look at the tip of the apex is about the only way I was able to understand. Essentially looking down on the tip of the apex, it should have no sections of sparkle reflecting back. I will add links into this if I can find what I am looking for before someone else posts it.
Thank you. What power loupes are used? I already have a stereo microscope
For me it's simple it really must easily shave hair along the full length of the blade time to hit the 3K.;)
It depends on the individual. I have poor vision up close so I tend to use my 60X, I think most are in the range of 30x to 60X with a few higher and lower. It is all about being able to see the bevel easily so a lighted loupe is my preference. On the bevel set you are looking at the apex or tip of the bevel but as you progress you look at the side of the bevel. Once you get the apex meeting perfectly along the way that does not really change, or at least should't, but the scratch pattern on the sides of the bevel does, showing the level of polish and the side view of the edge will also show how it becomes more straight as you progress. I have never played with a microscope, and know that many here do use them.
If anyone can link me to the thread with the good pictures, it would be much appreciated.
40X 25mm Jewelers LED Lamp Foldable Eye Loupe Magnifier Magnifying Glass Otpvs - Walmart.com
I use something like this and a strong light
When the bevel is completely set, 1. The bevels are flat, 2. They are in one plane from heel to toe and from edge to the back of the bevel, and 3. The bevels are meeting fully from heel to toe.
There are many tests, that will tell you some of this, but few that will tell you if all the criteria are met. As Larson says you can with experience feel or see some tell tails like, watching water or feeling stickiness, but learning the test takes time and you really need a foolproof test. Hair test are hit and miss and will not tell you if the whole bevel is set, only parts that are tested.
TPT is pretty fool proof but takes a long time to learn, Looking at the bevel from the side and straight down on the edge are the only test that will tell you if all three factors are met.
Failure to fully set a bevel is probably 95 percent of most new honer’s problems and cause of most of the threads in the honing forum.
Here is a good thread, Second Attempt at Honing, where a new honer took a bunch of great micrographs of the whole process from beginning to end and of all the issues he had. And what a fully set bevel looks like.
Once fully set, just remove each previous stria from the bevel without messing up the edge. Each progression will make the edge straighter.
And here is Toxic’s bevel set test video.
I use the TNT to test for the 1k. After that I focus on polishing the bevel on each stone so I don't really test between stones. It's all visual until the test shave.
If you already have a decent stereo-microscope, then a jeweler's loupe will be of no benefit. At least, that is my opinion. I have a stereo-microscope and have used others' loupes at meet-ups and I am grateful for my scope!Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin2515101
I have a USB scope but use it only to document a bevel or edge or when teaching so we are all looking at the same issues. It is a pain in the butt, a loupe is quick and always on the bench for a quick look. Just takes a second to look.
Make it easy and look often, especially when learning.
I like a 60X lighted loupe sells for as little as $2 or the Carson, MiroMax 200 sells for between $10 -15. MicroMax is 60 or 100X.
You can pay more for quality, I prefer to buy several and have them through out the house and shop. I bought 10 of the 60X at $2 each, cheaper than buying the batteries. Both are lighted.
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In comparison to a usb scope or a loupe, a stereo microscope is much easier to use, especially since it's what he already has.
Really?… Don’t see how. More importantly, it is not what he asked…
He already has a stereo microscope. That alone makes it pretty easy.
