Finshing hones, sharp or for comfort?

Good day gentlemen,

Having become accustomed to finishing my razors with the Suehiro Gokumyo 20K, I'm just wondering about members view of what is the ideal finished condition of our razors. My reason for raising this is after a year of the Suehiro, I acquired a coticule select grade 8 x 3 as I have mentioned on this forum before. Using the coticule as a finishing hone is my opinion of how this stone is ideally suited. We've heard this one stone hone bits, but now after using the coticule to finish after either the 8k Naniwa Superstone or the Suehiro 10k (Which is probably like a 15k), I conclude that 'my' coticule is a slow, hard stone, as finishers need to be. I find I have put plenty of strokes 100 + into an 8k edge with the coticule leaving me with a shave tested comfortable shave. After a week or so of using coticule edges only (On 3 razors) good shaves were had. Well this morning I used a Suehiro 20k edge 13/16 Dorko in top condition, a dozen strokes on a CROX strop, leather and away I went. Now confidence in shaving can lead to slip ups. Well I gave myself a nick with what was a bloody sharp razor. My point is that either I'm just a dill who slipped or I am used to more 'forgiving' edges, from the coticule. Just a few views fellas. PS I adjusted the angle to my face real quick!
Regards Bob

I aim for sharp and comfortable
But some steels (a couple of Germans so far) prefer a somewhat lesser edge to maintain comfort and don't come of the Chrox or Ferrox to well but are nice after some extra leather slaps to tame them.
Look forward to seeing others responses here as I don't have any Coti or Gok 20 edges but the Minor HAD in me keeps looking at them both then I look at the prices on both and it fades quickly LOL

I lean towards coti. Find them much more forgiving on sensitive skin. Will happily admit they're not as sharp as some synthetics but with good prep and careful shaving I get just as clean a shave with less irritation. I even prefer coti finish to slate or thuringian.

I have only really used a Naniwa progression to 12K and then about 10 strokes on a hanging strop pasted with Crox. If I get it all right the result is a blade that is sharp enough and comfortable on the face. It suits me just fine and allows me to do a 4 pass shave daily.

Bob

I must admit that I have shaved with very few synthetic edges. For the most part I found them to be prickly. I have however used a razor finished by a member here on the 20K that was a very nice edge indeed. Although I am a set of naturals for my finishing, I have to say there is at least one nice synthetic edge out there.

I think with something like the Suehiro 20k it is a combination of sharp and smooth, but as Sham told me years ago, you have to know when to stop. If you go too far it is too much of a good thing.

I've often said that I believe the old barbers in North Jersey used coticules to finish because the edges are so forgiving. None of us want to cut ourselves shaving, how much less does a pro barber want to nick a customer.

The thing with coticules versus a 20k, or the like, is consistency. With the synthetic they are all alike and you know what to expect. With the natural it is the 'box of chocolates'. Sometimes it is delicious, and other rimes it is another carmel or coconut. :)

Good question, Bob. It's up to you, your razor, and your stone. I finished on the Gok20 for almost a year and always enjoyed the shave. But the razor would leave my skin with red patches in some areas. They weren't at all painful, just red. Like Rezdog, I also found the edge could be prickly, but a good stropping would for the most part take care of that. So I thought the problem with the redness was maybe an allergy to Lanolin in MWF, but for some reason I finished on a coti and the redness disappeared. So to answer your question, the first ideal condition is that it doesn't cause redness, and isn't prickly to shave with. So that seems to cut synthetics from my finishing list which is a shame, cause both the nani12 and gok20 leave a great edge.

So like you now I also finish on a coti. I've been using them on and off for years but went through a phase a while ago and did some intensive practice on the ones I have, about 15, until I found one that I thought I could easily get a good edge off and enjoyed using. It's a simple 2x4 Rose Rock, not nearly as fine as some others I have, but the edge is sharp and forgiving and lasts well. I'm also travelling at the moment, so will be away from my quarry for probably another year, but I brought it along cause I know I could buy an ebay special and put a good edge on it, or I can maintain the couple of razors I brought with me.
So it's not the finest edge, nor the sharpest, but the second ideal is I can put a nice enough edge on any razor with it.

Yes, new hard synthetics especially in the nano grit range like the GS20 produce a very straight and keen edge, because of the extreme uniformity and hardness of the grit, and for some razors can be too much of an edge. In addition, not all razors can handle a nano grit edge, especially with too many laps or pressure.

There is an old theory that, high grit natural stones, are a composition of random grit of similar size, but different in hardness and friability, in a unique blend of grit and binder, which is why only so few naturals work well for razors.

That cocktail of size, shape, friability and hardness of grit create a microscopically uneven, Kasumi polished bevel, and a straight but microscopically uneven edge.

It is also why I suspect some nano grit edges can fail and micro-chip easier then edges finished at much lower grits with natural stones.

As with many things in this hobby experimentation is key, to find the best combination of technique and tools to produce results that, work best for you.

What's wrong with coconut?!?!?!?

I would try to add something to this conversation, but I'm still trying to figure out what I like. I have a couple more comfortable edges and a few restores that I am going for as sharp as I can manage. I enjoy the comfort edges, it almost just exudes to be used with muscle memory instead of focusing on every detail at every second and minute contour of the face.

This has been an ongoing question for years..

People have a tendency to gravitate toward which Stone/Hone works best with their razors and theirs faces when honed using their technique, then defend their decision to everyone else tenaciously ... or "This stone gives the best edges because it works best for me" :p


My opinion is clearly stated in my Sig line :)

I find that just using my coticule gives me a more skin friendly edge.
It's not as sharp as some edges I have received when getting shave ready blades from sellers like the invisible edge .New Thiers & Bokers gave me irritation until I took the edge's back on my coti.
So for now I have 3 blades in permanent rotation & all of them have coti edge's on them.
It all comes down to personal choice.
Cheers Paul

I have a theory that if a razor is as sharp & as polished as it can be, everything else is in your hands.

[QUOTE=onimaru55;1610750]I have a theory that if a razor is as sharp & as polished as it can be, everything else is in your hands.[

Many thanks for all the input, I think I may have on occasions overdone the 20k strokes, where as with the coticule I can hone away and develop better muscle memory improving my stroke without creating a foil edge, thus the comfort. Cheers Bob

An over done synthetic edge is easily remedied, by simply lightly jointing the edge on the corner of the stone, the GS20 in your case. Then re-setting the edge on the stone, it should only take 10 or so laps if you used lite pressure to joint.

It should only take a few minutes to put a new edge on it. The other thing that works well for the GS20, is jointing the edge just before putting it on the GS20, so you have a very straight edge and then the 20 makes it’s own edge bringing the bevels together.

Or stropping on linen, just before the GS20.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Euclid440

An over done synthetic edge is easily remedied, by simply lightly jointing the edge on the corner of the stone, the GS20 in your case. Then re-setting the edge on the stone, it should only take 10 or so laps if you used lite pressure to joint.

It should only take a few minutes to put a new edge on it. The other thing that works well for the GS20, is jointing the edge just before putting it on the GS20, so you have a very straight edge and then the 20 makes it’s own edge bringing the bevels together.

Or stropping on linen, just before the GS20.

---

Thanks, I've seen a video of Alx Gilmore (The Japan Blade) performing this process. Seems a lot more delicate than straight out killing the edge on a glass, but the 'joining' maneuver sounds a good thing. Must try it. Regards Bob

If you end up with a wire edge before the final stone the next stone will remove it.
Jointing is mostly unecessary with razors IMHO. In fact just a few light strokes will remove it on the stone that you created it on.
A wire edge is always due to excess pressure &/or strokes.

btw Moved to honing where this thread should get more views.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

If you end up with a wire edge before the final stone the next stone will remove it.
Jointing is mostly unecessary with razors IMHO.

---

Yup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Jointing is mostly unecessary with razors IMHO. In fact just a few light strokes will remove it on the stone that you created it on.

---

Yup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

A wire edge is always due to excess pressure &/or strokes.

---

And again, yup.