Always important to learn lessons...
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Always important to learn lessons...
I got a good shave from it. What more do you want from a razor? :) I don't feel the same "vibe" as I do from my vintage razors but that's more an issue with me than with the razor wouldn't you say? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
It's heavy but people love the weight of a big wedge. The GD is a 6/8 or more isn't it?
The scales, until you replace them are ugly, the Gold Dollar stamp on the blade is ugly until you remove that.
Otherwise, it's like arguing about the shave from a DE vs a cartridge. There really is no difference but we just like DE's and straights better. :)
[emoji33]Quote:
Originally Posted by gcbryan
Hahahahahaha..
The Gold Dollars are 6/8" razors and their weight is typical of 6/8" razors with similar grind profiles. I have two 5/8" vintage razors, but they are too light for me. My most recent purchases have been 3" long 7/8" blades and they are a lot heavier than the typical 2 3/4" long 6/8" blades . I love the heavy blades as I can use the weight of the blade to cut through my beard smoothly.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcbryan
With heavier blades, all I have to do is guide it whether I am shaving, honing, or stropping. A lot of experienced shavers started with 5/8" razors because they were hesitant to learn on larger, heavier blades. Once they become comfortable shaving with a straight, they move on to 6/8" or larger blades and never look back. I don't even look at 5/8" blades anymore. The next razor on my wish list is a 15/16" wacker.
I feel the same way about DE razors, I love long handle, heavyweight razors.
It is all a matter of preference, however. My wife likes to cut up vegetables with a small pairing knife. I like using a heavy chef's knife and let the weight of the knife do the work. As always, YMMV.
With the Gold Dollars, the higher numbered razors are better finished and ground. The 66s are the bottom end and they are rough. I use 208s for test razors.
All of them can be made to shave well enough but it typically takes a couple of hours on a 66 and that's having done Gold Dollars many times and understanding what you're doing.
A good example of a 208 or a Gold Monkey can be decent razors though the scales are still crude and you'd never mistake either for a well made, well balanced razor.
Cheers, Steve
If by vibe, you mean any sort of attachment given to the vintage because it has 'history' and isn't 'just a cheap Chinese blade' then yes, I agree with that statement. More you than razor. If you mean the shave is just a smidge better from your vintage blades then I would say you're probably not imagining it. It probably actually is the razors.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcbryan
I mean there's no arguing the steel used in Gold Dollars isn't that great. It was rehashed in another thread, I think it was Utopian that said he saw one broken in half to display the shabby grain and poor heat treatment.
I just finished up a GD 66 and have one more to go, sent to me by a friend that selected 'good' ones for me. Also have 4 Gold Monkeys on the way, same blank but a little thinner and lighter, fewer defects and ground a bit better - saves me time. I suspect they are high graded out of the lot. They'll shave well but the bevel angle is usually too steep, around 18.5 degrees which makes for a mild edge but if you want a laser it's best to thin the spine around 2-3 degrees.
I haven't noticed the steel being bad and I don't think you can gage razor steel qualities by the way the blade breaks. Now if you showed me a gas chromatograph analysis I'd believe that. They hold an edge comparable to most mainstream razors. I use them as test razors and on air travel and they always make me glad to be back and pick up a Tanifuji lol.
I did the basic geometry correction on this one with a Shapton Glass HR double thick 500, a fast cutting stone well suited for 'good' Gold Dollars. I began as always by taping the EDGE and working the spine a little thinner and flatter, then setting the bevel. I have Atoma plates and a Shapton Pro 320 for the stubborn ones. Next up, my standard series Shapton Pro 2k, 5k, 8k. I had a bit of bother getting the last 2-3mm of the toe to pass HHT at 5k, back to the 2k, then back up and all is well. I have another decent test razor or one I won't go back for if I leave it in the hotel.
There really isn't much point in criticsing or praising them; they're good for some things but they're not really a pleasant razor to shave with, ergonomically. They were never meant for the Western market. They're good to compare stones, naguras, etc because where can you get a half dozen razors all the same for an affordble price. The downside is that all 6 will need considerable work, but once that's done they work well. They're a particularly critical test of a hone because the bevel angle is too steep; if your hone, nagura, and methods can do silent HHT root in or out on a Gold Dollar, you have yourself a truly fine setup. Not every hone can do this.
They remind me of those Communist-era Eastern European cars, once you halfway remanufacture them they'll get you where you want to go but everyone would much rather have a Mercedes. But they keep the wear off better razors for me, and though there are tons of unlovely razors on eBay, you'll end up with different grinds, steels, tempers, etc which are not so good for comparing things.
And I still have problems putting wear from testing on a fine razor though time has not treated it well. Just me I guess.
Cheers, Steve
You don't judge the steel by how it breaks. You break it so that you can look at the grain structure to see the size and type of grains that exist in the steel. Steel is not just steel after it is heat treated and quenched. The size and types of the grains formed make a huge difference in its microstructure that can dramatically affect the characteristics and behavior of the steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
The heat treatment of Gold Dollars is bad and it easily is revealed by breaking the blade and simply looking at the steel.
I think that I respectfully disagree with at least part of this. I worked for about 20 of my 33+ years at Oak Ridge National Laboratory supporting the Metals and Ceramics Division and was also an x-ray safety guy. I am not a Ph.D materials scientist (thank goodness!) but I am familiar with how they tested metals because I did safety reviews of the testing methods. Todd Simpson did his post doc work there and I know his former sponsor pretty well.
You can't see steel grain on a broken surface, even with an electron microscope. The surface has to be flat and polished because the electron microscope has essentially no depth of field. The tool in current use to section or prepare a surface for microscopy is a focused ion beam, or FIB.
I am less informed about heat treat, because I was not involved with it as it did not involve radiation, but usually the hardness is (simply) tested with a tool under pressure, sort of like that dot we used to see on Puma knives.
I am questioning the original source that said you could tell much about what was claimed by looking at a broken steel surface. Do you have a source for that Ron? I'd like to see what was actually said.
I'm retired, so I have no time - lol - but I'll try to look up someone who knows and see what they say. I have a drawer full of dud Gold Dollars, warped, bent, etc so maybe I can send one or three to Todd if he's still doing that kind of thing.
Cheers, Steve
If you would like to look up someone who knows, then contact Mike Blue, who is a member here.
I attended Howard Clark's "ites class" last fall and we saw dramatically reduced grain structures in the GDs when they were properly heat treated.