Thread: Undercutting better on one side?

Tape is important for people new to honing razors. The tendency is to put way too much pressure on the spine in it wears faster than the edge and it messes up the geometry. Then you are forever trying to chase an ever changing bevel angle. Tape makes learning to hone easier and safer for razors and a single layer of tape does not have a profound impact on the sharpening angle.

Originally Posted by RezDog

Tape is important for people new to honing razors. The tendency is to put way too much pressure on the spine in it wears faster than the edge and it messes up the geometry. Then you are forever trying to chase an ever changing bevel angle. Tape makes learning to hone easier and safer for razors and a single layer of tape does not have a profound impact on the sharpening angle.

On the subject of "torquing", would it be better to torque the blade to focus some attention on lets say the toe of the blade or would it be better to just keep honing using equal pressure until it's sorted out?

Torquing the blade from my perspective is the marginal amount of twisting pressure used to ensure that the pressure applied during honing is focusing the energy on the edge and not the blade as whole.
Pressure and torque are extremely subtle energies applied.
As an example to how little pressure is needed to cut steel, on a wet hone push the puddle back and forth using as little pressure on the hone as possible keep lightening up until the water or puddle disappears under the blade, that is the point in which you are no longer removing metal with the hone. As you apply more pressure, apply just enough to begin moving a little puddle in front of the blade. That is the starting of honing. As you apply more pressure you are starting to cut a little faster, and then you start to flex the blade and the very tip of the bevel rides up above the hone and you at that point are no longer honing the edge and just removing metal from the shoulder. I live a long way from another straight razor shaver. In the beginning is was me and YouTube videos. I later got to a meet and learned way more in two days of hanging out honing razors than in many many hours spent honing on my own. There are many tiny subtleties to honing that are difficult to learn on your own. If you can get to a meet...

Originally Posted by nuggetz

On the subject of "torquing", would it be better to torque the blade to focus some attention on lets say the toe of the blade or would it be better to just keep honing using equal pressure until it's sorted out?

Sometimes, with a warped or smiling edge, if "the wave" or maybe a sharpie test tells you you are just not hitting the heel or toe, some corrective work is necessary. Very light circles and Japanese-style back and forths on a stubborn toe or heel, followed by x-strokes to even it all out, will usually bring it into line. As the majority of my razors are smilers to some degree, I do a lot of this.

The torquing to heel or toe (accomplished with a tiny amount of pressure to the tip or rear of the thumb holding the shank) is a useful technique, but should be very light and subtle. Somebody watching (who doesn't hone razors) would never know you are doing it. I would start with a sharpie test along the edge and a couple of strokes to see the results: any marker left behind, or if the wave is not being pushed ahead or undercut-you aren't hitting the hone there. I'ts usually pretty obvious, and often the previous hone-wear along the spine and bevel will tell you where past issues have plagued a honer (or else a poor honer has caused the issue with TOO much torque on the toe-you see this a lot on vintage razors!). I have seen a number of YouTube videos that show this corrective action as part of the process. Sitting down with an experienced razor honer would help tremendously if you can orchestrate or find a meetup near you-most are glad to help and actually enjoy teaching new guys.

Ultimately, these kinds of subtle corrective actions during the honing process are mostly done by feel, and take some experience and very close, sensitive observation of how the process is progressing to know that you are achieving the desired effect. I have had blades plague me for hours, even multiple sessions on the bevel set as I get one area "there" and lose another until that one little subtle thing different gets me over. Every blade I hone teaches me something new-I've got an old honed-out Wade and Butcher American razor with just massive hone wear that has been in my to-do pile for like 3 years; it intimidates me that much after several frustrating sessions. But I just know that, one session soon I will get mad about it, put xxx layers of tape on the spine, and nail it!

Let us know how it comes out. Aaron

Thats all good info guys. And yes I agree you cannot get that from watching Youtube videos and no one really explains what they're doing so new comers think that you just move the blade around the stone and its sharp. I get that and sorta of figured some of that out with some of my honing sessions. Main thing I'm trying to fix now is the undercut on one side of the blade that just doesn't swoop over like the other side does. I gave it another go and this time really focusing on the consistency of my strokes and ensuring that adequate pressure is applied towards the edge and it seems like it started to come around. Had to stop cuz I have to get back to work but this does require a lot more concentration that one is lead to believe simply by "Youtubing" it.

Whereabouts in Chi-town are ya?

Originally Posted by dinnermint

Whereabouts in Chi-town are ya?

Near the midway airport area :-)

Just a quick thought on the subject, make sure the blade is clean, maybe wipe it off with a little alcohol on a paper towel. If there is metal polish, wax, silicone on the blade it changes the undercut. When I get a pitted eBay special I clean the rust out of the pits and give it a coat of Renwax to seal the pits. No undercut at all.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by Steve56

Just a quick thought on the subject, make sure the blade is clean, maybe wipe it off with a little alcohol on a paper towel. If there is metal polish, wax, silicone on the blade it changes the undercut. When I get a pitted eBay special I clean the rust out of the pits and give it a coat of Renwax to seal the pits. No undercut at all.

Cheers, Steve

Steve,

I actually had that happen today, was honing a razor and what I have been doing lately is stropping after the 4/8K and checking the HHT and after the 4K I took it to the linen/leather and the undercut has been excellent before stropping but when going to the 8K it was almost non existent for several minutes, not sure if there was an issue with the blade but it did the same after the 8K but the finished HHT after coming off my JNAT finisher and stropping was excellent.

So is it possible it picked up some oils and such off the strop ?

Originally Posted by Jnatcat

Steve,

I actually had that happen today, was honing a razor and what I have been doing lately is stropping after the 4/8K and checking the HHT and after the 4K I took it to the linen/leather and the undercut has been excellent before stropping but when going to the 8K it was almost non existent for several minutes, not sure if there was an issue with the blade but it did the same after the 8K but the finished HHT after coming off my JNAT finisher and stropping was excellent.

So is it possible it picked up some oils and such off the strop ?

Possible, some strops are oil tanned and if you rub your hand on the strop, there's maybe 'fingerprint' oil on the surface.

Cheers, Steve