Thread: Jnat finishing ideas

Been honing since 2012 using synthetic stones. Finally five months ago bought my first jnat, an Ozuku Asagi, followed up soon by a Wakasa then a Shobu Asagi Tamamoku. I don't have any nagura, but my method is to use synthetic stones to 8k level then Atoma 1200 slurry and use one of the Japanese natural stones to finish with. (all three stones are hard, and fine particle size). Now, I've enjoyed reasonably good results with the Ozuku and a medium slurry diluted to a misty one with barely any pressure. My question is, that having done this technique with all three stones, the results are significantly better with the Shobu. I mean a markedly sharper smoother result. I have done basically the same things with the Ozuku and Wakasa, but I'm a little off the pace compared to the Shobu. So, is there a tweak I can try that might improve my results on the ozuku and Wakasa. If nagura is worth investing in, well, I'd try it, but at present I am enjoying the Shobu with DN. (there are photos of the hones in the Hones section). I would like to hear some opinions/options?

Maybe more/less time on the other stones &/or progress to water only

I would try taking the good edge you can get off the shoubu then using the other naturals to see how change that edge.

Your method is a carbon copy of mine but I pretty much get the same edge from all the stones I have so i have started playing around with a few different tomo naguras and thickness/thiness of slurries, I have gotten edges that are very keen but also very harsh from being to sharp or toothy

Yes, try clear water finishing, 20 x-strokes or so.

Cheers, Steve

I've been away for a few days, but I'll back to the stones tomorrow. Now I am thankful for your input gentlemen, and there are a couple of things I'd like to throw out there for consideration. I watched a few of Keith Johnson's videos, and he uses his tomo nagura, to dress his base stone, in that, the tomo is worked to all areas of the hone, and in his video, after what could be called slurry creation, he washes the slurry off and re-does the exercise. This leads me to ask, that the fineness of the tomo, it's affect on the surface of the stone. This is as opposed to me creating a slurry with the Atoma 1200. Am I creating a rough, or disrupted surface to actually make the honing surface a little less than smooth, reflective even. So would that perhaps make a difference? I was thinking of using the Atoma 1200 on the Ozuku to create a slurry to reserve. Then use one of my other two jnats as a tomo and rub the Ozuku with say the Wakasa, then if the slurry from that exercise isn't sufficient, then use the slurry I reserved from the first use of the Atoma. adding it to the 'burnished' smooth surface of the Ozuku? Would honing on a significantly polished surface as described make some difference? I intend to try that. What I am also considering, is the fact that the edges I have achieved and shaved with off the Ozuku and Wakasa were not sub standard, they just weren't as good as the Shobu, those other two hones gave a perfectly serviceable shave, so maybe I am edge chasing a bit. Could it perhaps be that in fact the Shobu is a better stone than first imagined. It was described when bought as being 1104 grams Shobu Asagi Karasu Tamamoku. This mouthful of Japanese descriptors isn't something I am seeking to disprove or over-rate, I'm accepting it as it is. I might have been very fortunate to land a stone that is exceptional. The shaves were really, damn good, coming from someone who generally shaves off a Gok 20.
Maybe I'm seeing shadows here and the fact may simply be that I have a lot to learn about how to assess and use each individual stone. I guess to describe the shobu, I'd say it's an easy task to put an edge on a razor with it. Dumb luck to land a really good stone? I think there is some truth to it. I have a couple of similar razors, a couple of Dovo 6/8's with Shobu edges and I'll try the various options.

Originally Posted by bobski

Edge on Dovo 6/8 carbon steel on the Ozuku Asagi


I had put this edge up when I first got the Ozuku, and from memory the shave from this edge was Good, not a Wow edge though. Looking back after getting more stones, and learning a bit more, this edge looks OK, and by and large it is. So since acquiring the Shobu I am of the view that the edge or at least the shave was better than this first edge. I may well be being a bit picky here, but none the less it is what it is.

Th at looks like a superb edge to me. If it's missing anything, I'd guess it'd be on the linen and leather side unless the bevel wasn't fully set and the edge still has some width.

There is lots to take in with natural stones and their use. That edge is ok, I think, coming from Suehiro 20k edges I maybe had a different idea of what I could expect from my naturals. Never the less, it's fun to to,learn from these experiences. Thanks for the input, but I still have a lot to learn.

Looks like a beautiful edge to me. I sold a couple of sweet JNATs myself, but I think at some point I'll get a nice Shoubodani again, as they seem to be one of simpler, more straightforward stones in the hard class.

It is very difficult to conclude what the edge really looks like, from only the one shot. If you're looking at the edge from the same angle, under the same light all the time, you are missing the real picture. Tilt the magnifier, use a different source of light, check under different angles. You need to be able to see the scratches, not just the haze. As a great honer once said, "I can show you anything I want under that scope".

As for honing, I would do two things differently. I would not dilute the slurry, but rather stay at the same (low-fat milky) consistency throughout the process. Add water as your stone absorbs it, just several drops at a time. Second, I would certainly not muddy things up. Yes, that will increase the cutting action, but is also likely to dull your edge, if the hone has any cutting power. Allow slurry the time it needs - as mentioned, maybe you need to spend a long time on it to see the improvement. I remember a while ago, seeing Takeshi Aoki honing some kamisori on the Tube, and he quickly did the ground and mid-range work, then when he raised Tomo slurry he said "I need to spend a loooooong time on this". Sounded as if he needed to spend the weekend on the damn thing...! [emoji38] But it's true - the finer you go, the longer you need to stay.

If you're gonna go to clear water, then spend some time on it (same principle applies). 20 strokes with no pressure may be doing nothing for your edge, unless of course you can prove/observe differently. You need to be able to see the change in the polish and that haze (as shown in the image) needs to darken quite a bit. I am almost certain it would, judging by the way you describe hardness of your stones. It could be useful to try it on a larger surface, such as a steel bar, a good knife, or a heavily used razor (with lots of hone wear). It will be easier to see with the naked eye. Don't count the strokes, but hone until you're done - meaning until you stop seeing any progress/changes.

Sorry, this was a bit long.. hope you find it somewhat useful though.