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Watching a few vids and I noticed that some folks like to finish with as little water as possible on the stone. I'm not understanding what difference this would make. I normally have a nice amount of water on the stone at all times, so why is it important to clean the water off and work on just a damp stone in the end? I'm talking about synthetic stones BTW.
I like a lot of water when I'm honing I spray regularly, the water is the added lubrication more water to me means a smoother edge smoother action overall.
^^^^^^^^^ I'm with Jamie on this one. I hone next to the sink and use a small spray bottle of water to ensure the honing surface stays wet. Sometimes water pushes off the sides of the hone, so I'm regularly spraying.
Wave and undercutting effects are important indicators to me as I progress up to the finisher. And, even at the finisher when things are golden, I see no benefit to be had by drying the hone at this point.
:shrug:
I use plenty water during the bevel setting and sharpening stages and watch to see whether the blade is undercutting the water, which tells me I'm on the right track.
But when finishing on the 8k and higher grits I would start with a wet stone and then keep going until the hone is dry. The direct steel to stone contact with no water to suspend the abraded particles seems to produce a glazing action on the stone, reducing the stone's abrasiveness and improving it's ability to polish the blade.
I use a lot of water as well.
I actually use progressively more water as I go to ensure there is as little grit as possible on my final strokes before moving on to my next stone.
This is pretty generalized and I di like to change things up and experiment from time to time. Mostly I use a fairly wet hone. If I’m finishing on my Norton 8K for example, I do let it go to damp. Some finishers I will sometimes go with damp and end with a few back strokeaka spine leading. Bevel setter is always a lot of water. Finishers that varies a little.
Every hone (synthetic and natural) is different. Two extremes are the Imperia La Roccia that becomes quite sticky as you near completion; if I am using that one, I finish under a stream of running water. The Zulu Grey is entirely different in that it is possible to use that one dry. I have a Vermio that seems to finish best using shave cream as a lubricant. Liquid hand soap, glycerine, Smith honing solution, and oil are other possible lubricants. You just have to experiment to find out which lubricant works best with each hone. I try to stay away from oil, however, as once you use oil, it is difficult to remove it from a stone and try something else.
Very few stones I will go to dry (damp) and only on the final finishing process
Nakayama, after the slurry is all broken down, and smooth as silk comes to mind.
I used to use that trick back in 2007 when all I had was a Norton 4/8 and wanted to get the ABSOLUTE most out of that hone.
It is just another Tool in the box of tricks to mess with to see if you can get "more" sometimes it works, try it and decide if it works for you.
But you better have a smooth LIGHT even stroke
Great replys guys. Thanks.
Ive always thought a good amount of water was best. Now i dont flood the stone with water when im at the point of finishing with that stone, whatever stage in the honing im at. I feel too much water (big puddle) will look like the blade is undercutting when its plowing thru and some happens to go on top of the blade. But ive never tried to go with just damp in the end. I might give it a try sometime to see what difference it makes.
BTW Glen, ive seen your vids and you seem to do this. This is what made me wonder why. You never explained in your vids why you were doing it. Im now at the point in my honning that im wanting to try and learn all. If i ever could.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Also, it depends very much on the steel and the hone du jour.
Lately I’ve been treating my chosera 10K to less water than usual on som german steel before taking it to the final level, a Nakayama or an escher.
Seems to have worked out fine.
But like Glen says, that does require an even and very light stroke imho.
The more water (to a point) means more lube and less aggressive and less blade-hone contact. As you use less water the lube decreases and the blade contact becomes more aggressive and requires more finesse. Of course this can change with the stone but it's a pretty good general principal.You can experiment with different liquids (theoretically) for differing results.
For a real treat try some heavy water. Too bad the National Lab frowns on stealing it.
Har har.
A lot depends on the stone, but generally on synthetic stones, a good amount of water keeps the stone cleaner and cutting more aggressive and cleanly. You can control the cut with the amount of pressure.
Your progression, how large of a jump you are making from the previous stone to the finish stone will dictate how easy polishing the bevel will be.
While more water can cause a micro “hydrofoil” effect, slurry and swarf will fill the pores of the stone and causes the stone to cut less aggressively as well. This is a larger variable than the amount of water. My goal to repeatable edge is elimination of as many variables as possible.
On your finish stone, the goal is to polish the bevel to straighten the edge and depending on the stone composition and grit, results will vary with the amount of water and or slurry. With Synthetic water stones there is always some slurry.
I hone with more water than most. I use a plastic fast food type tray to catch the excess water and slurry, with the stone in a steelex rubber holder, and use a plastic squirt bottle, keeping the stone flooded with enough water to keep much of the slurry off the stone face. When I finish on a synthetic stone, I do so on a clean stone and will clean and dress the stone with a 600-grit diamond plate and rinse well under running water, for the last few laps after polishing the bevel.
Experiment with the amount of water and slurry to get the results you want. Good magnification will aid in the amount of polish and straightness of the edge. When finishing on a synthetic, I use either, an 8k Naniwia, Snow White, 10k King Ice Bear, a 12k Naniwia Super Stone or a 20K Suehiro Gokumyo, each will finish a bevel to near mirror, but will perform just a bit differently with water and slurry/ swarf. For example the 12k Naniwia and the 20k Suehiro can easily load up and lead to micro chipping, a clean stone face eliminates that problem.
So, to answer the OP, it depends.
It sounds like you are nearing the stage of chasing the elusive 2% of keenness and repeatability. Perfection means nothing if it is not repeatable.
Like so many things when it comes to honing, you must experiment with your stone to find what works best with your technique and razor.
Naturals are a whole other kettle of fish, many more variables...
Perhaps if they knew we were gonna be steeling it, they wouldn't be frowning quite so much. OTOH, if we were "steeling" it to fix a frown, they might not have a problem at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
You said it!Quote:
Har har.
Yep, as Euclid440 posted, im working on that last 2%. OK, maybe im not that far but maybe 8%. Ha
Thanks for posting your comments and opinions. Some days it goes so well on the hone, and others it looks and feels right but the shave fails my picky test. Sure it will shave, but it might not be as perfect as i expect it should be.
I will continue to keep on keeping on, and hope i get a higher success rate soon. Its not bad now days, but i want better. As i bet most do. Lol.
I like to finish with both my Coti & 16K Shapton under running water. I have found this works best with both of these hones for me. I tend to use less water on lower grit hones. Especially 1K through 4K . One thing I have started doing is treating my hone water with a small amount of Ballistol. Just enough to turn the water white works fine for me. Try it sometime!
Dave"Slawman"Huffman