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I've been trying to get my dovo razor sharp.
I have 12K stone and green polishing compound. I tried doing some passes on the stone and then finish with the polishing compound on the canvas side of the strop. The razor can shave but it does not feel as sharp. For comparison I use feather straight razor, the disposable blades of that razor are REALLY sharp. Any advice on getting a really sharp edge, preferably with the tools I already have.
Thanks.
If the bevel is not properly set as is mostly the case with most new Dovos... No.... well, not in a reasonable amount of time.
I would suggest getting it pro honed by one of the senior members here then you should be able to keep it maintained with your tools.
Great advise from Oz. A 12k is a fine hone. Not suited for much else but finishing or touching-up an already shaving and undamaged edge, IMO.
That kind of 12k is it?
The 12K stone I have is this one from Shapton https://www.amazon.com/Shapton-M5-12.../dp/B002LW76XY
I also have some 6K stone (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MD4K3QM), and 1K by the same company that I use to maintain my kitchen knives. I always thought that anything below 10K is too low for a razor.
That's a good one, I think! Anyone with experience? The price is really good! :)
Give your location. There may be a member near you that can help.
Those kings work well with a little slurry, and you need to refresh the home with your lapping stone as soon as it starts feel slippery, a good gauge is the sound. Sounds like it’s not cutting as aggressively as it did when freshly lapped.
Not sure if your using tape for the spine or not. If you’re planning on not taping, I would tape it until you get the bevel reset, then set it again with the tape off, if planning to ultimately not use tape. It can save a razor that as newbs we can quickly ruin, I know from experience.
Once you get the bevel set on the 6k, keep honing until the stone feels really slick go super light, weight of the blade laps. You want to get the edge as perfect as possible before you jump to the 12k otherwise you’ll be there awhile. Good luck.
Be careful with the crox, a little goes a long way. I use 7 laps after I come off my 12k Naniwa, any more and it makes the blade “grabby” and irritating, at least to my face.
Ya as most will find out honing a razor us different get it pro honed by a real razor honing guy who shaves with a razor, also you need experience with a razor to make them work and without experience you can mess up an edge with the stropping and that's that. Tc
Add your location to your under your avatar, people often reach out to help, if we know where you are we can help in person. Definitely the best way to learn, from someone experienced .
Yes, Kings are there, but the 12k tadasv linked to first is a Shapton. Curious about that one.
The M5 Shap = 5mm thick. It is the cheaper non pro version of the 10mm full size Pro but for the home kitchen etc. It is bonded to a ceramic tile base. Don't use that side :pQuote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
It works the same on razors. A crispy stubble destroying edge that takes very little to be tamed on pastes but may still be a bit to much for those with sensitive skin. Perfect followed by the 20k Gok.
How would you compare it to the Naniwa SS12k, Oz?
Wouldja believe I've only used a Nani 12k 3x :oQuote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Like all the Pro's the 12 k is a very fast cutting aggressive stone easy to to raise a burr. I think a very different stone tho feels nice to use. Edge certainly has a use by date beyond the optimal # of laps.
So it would make a good 'barber's hone' with a few laps on a good edge?
:hmmm: Could be so.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Just thinking of a new member. This is what he desires. Heck! I may get one too! ;)
I kinda regret selling my 12 k. They're not super exe so worth a try, tho I never recommended them for new guys . Same as a V8 for a new driver but treated like a barber hone is a good idea. I used to jump from 5 k so spent more time but in general a light touch & a more is less approach works with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Is/was the Dovo new? If not post a pic, there may be something going on with the razor.
You have all you need to put an edge on a razor, Kings are good stones and will work just fine. The 6k has a lot of range. I have not used your Shapton, so heed Oz’s advice.
You will need some magnification and good magnification can be purchased on line for as little as $2, (lighted 40X) the Micro Bright at 10-$15 is a good lighted scope 60-100X.
You will also need to lap your stones, a 400-1000 diamond plate from Chef Knives to Go at $30 will lap your stone and last a lifetime. Or you can use a dollar store, metal cookie sheet and sheet of 320 wet and dry.
Make sure your Green Polishing Compound is pure Chrome Oxide, “Polishing Compound” bars, contain other aggressive abrasives that will leave a harsh edge, undoing all your honing work. Pure Chrome Ox can be purchased from shaving suppliers for 10-$15. Use sparingly, a little goes a long way.
Look up a Second Try at Honing, in the honing forum, where a new honer went from bevel set to shave ready with lots of good bevel photos to show you what to look for.
Or, as said find a local mentor and cut your learning curve dramatically. And do tape the spine to prevent needless damage to the spine.
IMHO, go back to the basics:
Find a copy online, here in the data base, or in a library, etc. of an old Barber's manual that teaches honing and stropping technique. Study the instructions and illustrations carefully. Barber's manuals were not meant to be used in the absence of an experience Barber instructor, but you can still learn a lot with careful study and lot's of trial and error. Combine that with any advice you receive here and, eventually, if you stick with it, you will not only improve, but become an expert in your own right.
If you can, find and experiment with old Barber hones, natural and synthetic, in good condition. Same with vintage leather/ canvas combination strops in good condition.
I takes time and careful skill development, but it can be done.
Good luck!
The Dovo was new. It definitely can shave, but has some tugging especially around the chin where hair is more dense. I think it was in a better condition when I got it about a year ago. When I was using the 12K stone I noticed that it leaves metal residue on the side closer to the scales. Tried rotating the stone and it's still the same. I bet there might be something wrong with the geometry or my technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Thanks for the advice. I ordered one of those USB microscopes yesterday. I'll post some pics once I get it.
Most likely some sort of slight smile or warp, your technique may be at fault too. Personally I started off with too much weight on the heel. A good technique is a rolling X stroke. Start your stroke with emphasis towards the heel, as you move down the hone the heel leads but you roll your pressure towards the the toe. Pressure should be just enough to keep control of the razor. Generally less pressure is better with edge and bevel condition dictating how much pressure you need. Search gssixgun on you tube as well as Lynn honing. Between those videos and detailed reports on this thread, you’ll be able to get a good edge without junking your razor in the process.
If your Dovo was never honed by a pro by hand and only had the factory edge, it is possible the bevel was not completely right to start with. Dont get me wrong, some of them come with a decent edge but most dont.
Follow what Marty/euclid said. It takes many many hours to learn to hone properly. Touching up an edge can be done but can also be a waist of time if it was never right to begin with. You have most of what is needed to put a new bevel and edge on your blade but...
I recommend sending it out to be done 100% correctly. Then you will know what the perfect edge should feel like. Pick up a couple low cost vintage razors and start your honing learning on them. Dont learn to hone on a blade you plan on relying to shave with. You will be disappointed often.
“I bet there might be something wrong with the geometry or my technique.”
Naw, probably not geometry. That is the one thing I don’t like about the 12k super stone is that they load up with black swarf and at that grit it can affect performance, polishing ability. You can clean the stone while on the stone holder with a green scotch brite pad, I keep a sponge on my honing tray to absorb excess water, or you can use a rubbing stone, a small diamond plate or a nagura to rub off the swarf, some have used an eraser. Or just give it a quick lap.
If it was new and you have not put it on an aggressive stone, it should be easy to fix with the 12k.
Once you get your scope or with any magnification, ink your bevels, I like colored ink it is easier to see. You can probably see it with the naked eye.
Do a light lap on your 12k, make sure the stone has been lapped and the edges of the stone are beveled or rounded. Now look at the bevel and the edge. Are you removing ink all the way to the edge, is the edge straight or chipped?
Now look at the edge, straight down on the edge, do you see any shiny reflections. Reflections are where the bevels are not meeting or chips, there is a good picture of a fully meeting edge, (post 51, page 11) and one almost meeting (post 42, page 9) in the (Second try at Honing) post. If the bevels are not fully meeting, it will not shave well, the edge, true edge is very thin.
You also want the bevel to be as stria free as possible, deep stria end in a chip at the edge.
What you see will determine your next step, be sure to tape the spine.
Check for a frown too. New Dovos can have them.
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Oz speaketh the truth: I've looked at several new lower end Dovos in shops and they all exhibited the kind of defects shown above. That Inox is a more expensive model and shouldn't have that kind of problem - come to think of it, no new razor from a reputable maker should be like that!
I honed a Dovo "Best Quality" razor bought new this past spring for a beginner. Total garbage if you ask me. I urged him to find a $50 vintage razor and sell off the Dovo asap.
Not long ago saying this would have been heresy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedster
Dovo seems to go thru quality cycles. It happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
As promised, here are some photos of the razor at ~40x magnification. I used 12K stone on it.
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Here are couple pictures of Feather's disposable blade just for comparison (which I think feels better)
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Honestly, I don't know what to look for. Both edges look similar. Do you guys see anything?
https://straightrazorpalace.com/honi...ggestions.html
This thread has great pictures. It’s a great reference to go through.
Yes, the edge above the red line is not properly developed on these 2 pics. one looks dinged & the other rough.Quote:
Originally Posted by tadasv
Bevel still needs refinement.
Your edge looks very corse. Lots of jagged edges. Look at the very edge from the side like in your pics and you will see the edge has the scratches that are in the bevel going all the way to the edge. Now, look at the Feather razor edge. The scratches stop before the edge. THIS is what gives comfort and keenness. If you were to do a hanging hair test on your edge it might cut, but what is happening is the hair is going in between a couple tips or into a notch and it's grabbing the hair.
Now, I'm still learning this looking at an edge thing and my honing is only 1.5 years worth of hands on so I'm still learning. But this is what I understand. Marty/Euclid will be by soon and chime in on what you have shown. He feels the 12K is a fast cutter and doesn't like it for finishing, or something to that affect. I like the 12K for a few strokes but then move on to a 20K to help smooth out what the 12K left of the edge. But, as I said, I'm still learning. I figure after 2 years of honing, I should be getting more better edges more often. I get a nice edge now but sometimes its hit and miss. Sure, they are keen and will cut, but I'm working on the next step. Comfort and keenness together.
As said it does appear the edge is not fully developed, the goal is to get the edge as chip free and straight as possible. Looking at the edge, straight down on the edge will show you where/if the bevels are not meeting.
Looking at a bevel from the side, will show you where you may not be honing to the edge, if deep 1k stria or previous grit stira has not been removed and may end in a chip at the edge or if you have chips or crumbling edges, but they will not show you if the bevels are meeting, fully. And if they are not meeting, you don’t have an edge.
A 12k super stone can finish an edge well and is a much more versatile stone than most use it for. But tends to load up easily, which for a finisher can be frustrating. A swarf loaded stone can undo what you are attempting to do with that stone, which is to perfect the edge.
It is simply a matter of removing the swarf from the stone face with a scotch brite pad, a rubbing stone, nagura or a diamond plate. When using a 12k super stone, I first remove the previous grit’s stria, then resurface the stone face a few quick laps with a diamond plate, then do finish laps on a clean stone. A 12k edge stropped on chrome oxide will give you a smoking shaving edge.
Take an edge pic as shown in the Second Try at Honing thread and you will see where the bevels are not meeting,(the shiny spots). I think you are very close, nice even stria on the bevel, just probably need a bit more to get them to meet, the 12k should easily do that.
Comparing to a feather edge is not helpful, as those edges are coated, and that is a completely different process. Compare to the edges and bevels in the recommended post.
Nice pics, which USB scope did you buy?
Thanks Euclid440. I got this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06WD843ZM It's ok for the price, but the stand is not good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
I have an old one with a similar stand. I shimmed the clamp with a thin 1/8 in piece of foam, cardboard would work, where the clamp attaches to the scope body to make that contact tight and lightly sanded the balls on the swivel to get a better grip.
Once you set it to the desired angle you will not need to move it much.
I also made a mat with black ¼ in black craft foam, 2 bucks at Wally mart and glued a strip on one edge to make a raised ledge to rest the razor on so the bevel is parallel to the lens. I lay the razor with the handle open, so the scales are 90 degrees to the spine and hanging off the edge of the pad to hold the razor in place. This puts the razor in the right angle for my set up.
Move the camera, not the razor, I have seen where guys have glued magnetic sheet to the pad, so it does not move. I weigh the scope base down with my keyboard.
I was going to make a larger base from MDF for the weight, but have used the keyboard for years now…
Mine looks identical to yours, if so there are 2 magnifications, low and high power. If you run the focus knob all the way in the opposite direction you will switch to high magnification, mine is supposed to be 60X and 400X once you switch to high you have to sneak up on focus.
Been wanting to buy a new scope, I have dropped mine several times and alignment is a bit wonky and photo are not as clear as newer ones.
Once you get that edge nice and straight and all the stria is only from the 12k, watch this video from Glen (gssixgun) at about the 11:30 mark he talks about how to finish on the norton 8k, this technique works extremely well with 12k ss as well. It also looks like the same technique Euclid is talking about.
