Thread: tried out a new dan's combination soft/black ark :}

when a friend of mine asked me why I used crox, I was sorta confused. I thought that was what you were supposed to do. so seeing as how he was trying out one way I like to hone a razor, I figured id better try out this whole no crox thing.

yesterday I took one of my favorite razors in 1095 and cocobolo, and took it to a brand new Dan's combination soft/black from amazon at about $78 shipped, its a 8x2x1" I checked it for flat on a granite plate, but didn't do anyting else to it. the razor had had one of my normal edges off the naniwa 12k. so I didn't use the soft side, and went straight to the black. to start with, I used some mineral oil, and then cut it on the stone with some mineral spirits to lighten it up and get the edge closer to the stone. did half laps on one side of the blade until I could see the scratch pattern go to the edge, flipped, did the same on the other side. then lightened up the pressure, and did alternating edge leading strokes to even things out. cleaned the stone, and went with straight mineral oil for a good cushion, and then alternating edge leading strokes for maybe another dozen strokes. replaced the oil, then switched to alternating edge trailing strokes for a dozen laps or so with a very light touch and plenty of oil to float the edge.

then instead of crox, linen and leather, I just palm stropped it maybe 20 times, I did have some of the mineral oil on my hand, and used the rest to oil the scales and pivot while I was there.

this morning, I lathered up with some mama bears vanilla and sandalwood {my wifes favorite}, gave it another 20 palm strops and shaved. it was a nice shave. close, comfy, just a hit of aggressiveness, got the nice sticking feeling when the razor wants to cling to my skin on the atg pass under my neck. I don't use any sort of aftershave, but no stinging or discomfort afterwards.

I then gave it my standard 10 laps on linen to dry the edge out, and will have fun seeing how it goes on just linen and leather for awhile :}

I do not typically use any pasted strop after I hone. If my edge is there, it should not need any. We all have our routines and it is good to switch it up every now after then.

Joe
Typically an Arkansas Translucent or Black are burnished after lapping. Mine have been burnished with SIC up to 2000 then I used 5k wet dry sandpaper. Many of the people on SRP don't think very highly of the Arkansas stones. I started using them on my kitchen knives over 50 years ago. So I have a historical bias.

When I use my Arks as finishers I come off the 12K Nanawa to the Ark and then do what I call a lubricant progression. I hone on the stone dry until it starts to bog down then continue with water, then soapy water then oil, each time hone until the stone tells you it is done. This could well be hundreds of laps. Not very efficient. I do prefer the edge over that provided by the 12K.
A couple of pictures of typical edges.
This is a 12k edges magnified about 800 times.
This is a finished Ark edges at 800 power. I think the Ark has eliminated most of the deeper scratches and substituted many smaller scratches.
Here is a 2K shot
I am also using a pasted strop and will be addind a diamond paste, .125 next week.

When I use my Arks as finishers I come off the 12K Nanawa to the Ark and then do what I call a lubricant progression. I hone on the stone dry until it starts to bog down then continue with water, then soapy water then oil, each time hone until the stone tells you it is done. This could well be hundreds of laps. Not very efficient. I do prefer the edge over that provided by the 12K

Boz-I think if you really dig around on here, you will find more love for Arkies than you think; there is quite the Arkie fan-club, in fact. It's funny how over the years you see different hones come and go in popularity in favor of whatever the cool kids are honing on at any given moment: Norton 4/8's, coticules, PHIGs, Zulu Greys, Eschers, the various purple slates, SG 20k's, JNats, etc.-all have had their moment. I think a lot of us just like playing with different naturals.

By the way, that is exactly my current default honing regimen: Nani 12 followed by the 4-stage Arkie progression; I really don't think you can go wrong with a well-done Arkie edge from a well-burnished stone.

Now if I can talk my buddy out of his Deep Rock coticule, I may have another obsessive rabbit hole to fall down!

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

When I use my Arks as finishers I come off the 12K Nanawa to the Ark and then do what I call a lubricant progression. I hone on the stone dry until it starts to bog down then continue with water, then soapy water then oil, each time hone until the stone tells you it is done. This could well be hundreds of laps. Not very efficient. I do prefer the edge over that provided by the 12K

Boz-I think if you really dig around on here, you will find more love for Arkies than you think; there is quite the Arkie fan-club, in fact. It's funny how over the years you see different hones come and go in popularity in favor of whatever the cool kids are honing on at any given moment: Norton 4/8's, coticules, PHIGs, Zulu Greys, Eschers, the various purple slates, SG 20k's, JNats, etc.-all have had their moment. I think a lot of us just like playing with different naturals.

By the way, that is exactly my current default honing regimen: Nani 12 followed by the 4-stage Arkie progression; I really don't think you can go wrong with a well-done Arkie edge from a well-burnished stone.

Now if I can talk my buddy out of his Deep Rock coticule, I may have another obsessive rabbit hole to fall down!

Mention Arkies and we tend to pop out of the woodwork.

I've got a good number of the hones mentioned above. Jnat, coticule, slates, sundry barber hones, a PHIG and other Chinese stones, Norton 1, 4, and 8k hones, Shaptons...I've shaved directly (zero stropping) off every stone in my collection. Yes, this includes the Norton 1k and Shapton 2k. Each creates it's own unique edge. And that's something that's much harder to discern if you're chasing the edge with paste. As you discovered OP, pastes are not a necessity but some do prefer it. Nothing wrong with it, but the fact that it masks the edge created by a given stone is a big part of why I don't use them often.

Anyway, of them all Arkansas stones are probably my favorite. Using Norton hones for example, I use those almost exclusively for razors, and maybe knives if I feel like being delicate. But if I were to slap a chisel on them like I do my Arkansas stones, it would put a gouge in them with a quickness and scratch up the surface to the point I wouldn't take a razor to the hone without re-flattening the stone and washing a solid chunk of it down the drain every other use. Arkies are so hard that is NOT a concern. Water, soap, oil, knives, chisels, razors, just a plain stone or with slurry so you can use a Black or translucent from bevel set to final polish...the only downside is not having enough time in the day (or dull blades that need a touch up) to play with it all.

Originally Posted by Marshal

Mention Arkies and we tend to pop out of the woodwork.

I've got a good number of the hones mentioned above. Jnat, coticule, slates, sundry barber hones, a PHIG and other Chinese stones, Norton 1, 4, and 8k hones, Shaptons...I've shaved directly (zero stropping) off every stone in my collection. Yes, this includes the Norton 1k and Shapton 2k. Each creates it's own unique edge. And that's something that's much harder to discern if you're chasing the edge with paste. As you discovered OP, pastes are not a necessity but some do prefer it. Nothing wrong with it, but the fact that it masks the edge created by a given stone is a big part of why I don't use them often.

Anyway, of them all Arkansas stones are probably my favorite. Using Norton hones for example, I use those almost exclusively for razors, and maybe knives if I feel like being delicate. But if I were to slap a chisel on them like I do my Arkansas stones, it would put a gouge in them with a quickness and scratch up the surface to the point I wouldn't take a razor to the hone without re-flattening the stone and washing a solid chunk of it down the drain every other use. Arkies are so hard that is NOT a concern. Water, soap, oil, knives, chisels, razors, just a plain stone or with slurry so you can use a Black or translucent from bevel set to final polish...the only downside is not having enough time in the day (or dull blades that need a touch up) to play with it all.

Good to see your post!! 100%

rez,

this honing was pretty interesting. that razor has not seen a stone since last feb, and was stropped 10 laps on crox when I finished the edge, and then again a couple months ago. other than that is has just seen 10 laps on linen after a shave, and 20 on leather before a shave. it is one of my favorites, so I probably shaved with it 3 times a week or so since then. and I did use the scope while honing it. and I saw a bias towards the left side near the heel, like when I strop I put more pressure on the towards me stroke at the beginning of the stroke, as it was rounded off more than the rest of the edge, so ill have to look for that from now on.


im thinking that without the use of crox, I wont get near as much rounding or microbeveling of the edges, and that future touchups should go faster as I wont have to cut near as much steel to clean things up. is that about what you have seen?


boz,

those are some very nice pictures! what are you taking them with?

this is kinda my first go around with arks. I had some as a kid, but didn't know how to take care of them, and hated the way they would cut good when new, and then smooth out and quit cutting after just a couple dozen knives. I usually use a crystalon coarse fine and then finish with a dmt 325 for most all of my working knives as I like the aggressiveness of that edge, and want something that works quick and easy since I typically will wreck an edge long before I wear one down. most of my work is really rough on blades, and part of my job as a maker is to use my knives harder than most will ever dream of using them. so I tend to be brutal with my personal knives as they are all long term testers. so normal knives get used as gasket scrapers, prybars, cutting roofing shingles, tons of rope and cardboard, ect…. my kitchen knives get the same only just kitchen use for the most part, plus butchering most of our meat from hunting deer, antelope and elk, plus picking up lambs, pigs, and beef from a rancher friend of mine, just to see what they will take.

this last month or so, ive been picking up stones and sic, and spending a lot of time under the scope testing out different edges on both knives and razors, and posting quite a few sharpening and honing videos sharing what im finding. for this stone, im going to leave it as is, as its a combination stone and I only have one side of the black. I also picked up a natural whetstone company translucent black that I plan on lapping one side to 600 grit with sic, and the other burnishing, will do the same to a dans translucent as I get 2 sides with it also.

but this whole no crox thing is pretty exciting as it should really let me get to feel the different edges, without the crox blending them all together.

I don’t see the problem with using a pasted strop to get the edge you’re looking for. I find that is is easy for me to tune up an edge using diamond spray on hard felt and CrOx on balsa. If all I really am interested in is the best possible shave, that does it for me without the expense of high grit finishing stones.

This discussion about stones vs pasted strops and other strategies for keening up or making an edge more comfortable keeps coming around on the forums. Found this old thread, among many others: https://sharprazorpalace.com/beginne...ted-strop.html

It seems that the final consensus on each of these threads is that it comes down to personal preference. Personal preference and a connection to a simpler time are why many of us shave with a straight razor, so that conclusion is hardly surprising.

Great threads as of late, trying different things. I love Arkansas and Pike Washita stones for everything from knives to razors. There was quite the opinion just a few years back that Arkansas stones were only good for knives but many of us tried it anyway and found them to be pretty amazing. Wisdom from years past has its place as does experimenting with things that others have failed at. That’s how we move forward and stay interested (at least for me). So, a suggestion, get off your computer/tablet/phone and stop talking philosophically and go get your hones and try different things. It is fun whether you fail or succeed. Just use a cheap razor and experiment.
Pastes used to be taboo. “Stones only.” “Pastes will ruin your edge” and “blah blah blah.” There is truth to all of this (except the blah blah blah part) but it’s not all true. Some will put lead on their strops and say they don’t use pastes. Some admit to it and some don’t. I rarely use pastes anymore but I still do from time to time. It’s another tool and it kept me in the game for a long while giving excellent shaves and it was fun. Pastes can be an inexpensive alternative to some expensive high grit synthetics.
One reason I don’t post so much here anymore is because I am busy honing and shaving and trying different things. Someday I will post about these little experiments but now I have to go shower and shave.