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Git thus razor out today. Traced the spine cetered it on the blade and cut the smile on it. Put it on a 220 rock and started the rolling x. Is there any way to speed this up to get the edge or is it just gona be thousands of strokes. This picture is before the cut.
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I use 1 layer of 3M Super 88 tape on spine to minimize spine wear. Some will say I am wrong, but. I set bevel on 200, 300, 400, 600 diamond hone from Harbor Freight. Then 6k Japanese water stone (100-200) strokes each side. Finish on 20k Jasper with water. Finally strop on canvas with Theirs Isard strop paste from The Art of Shaving and then leather.
You may want to fasten temporary scales to make it easier to hold.
That is a pretty nice blade, don't learn on that one.
I find honing a razor without scales to be a pain, so I would recommend scales.
One layer of tape on the spine is good advice.
The edge on that blade is straight (bread-knifed?) and the spine has a slight curve to it, so a rolling x-stroke is most appropriate.
Use 1 layer of tape on the spine and change it frequently.
Attach some scales of some kind.
Please do not use the Norton 220 because you will develop carpal tunnel syndrome.
I assume you breadknifed that edge. That was a mistake.
Get a diamond hone to recreate an edge.
Im with Doc on putting n some kind of scales first. Even if its just thin pieces of wood with micro bolts. It will make honing a lot easier than trying it without scales.
As far as honing you could start with a dmt325 with a high angle then work it down closer to the stone. Tape, yes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasman
Agreed. Use a high angle to start.
A dmt 325 or 325 silicon carbide sandpaper changed frequently.
I'm gonna be the killjoy here. From what I can tell in the photo, it really looks like somebody ground down a big old wedge of the "eagle" etched variety, and tried to make it "pretty" There was probably a load of rust, or maybe even big chips in the edge.
MY concern with blades like this, is in the grind and polish process, the blade has at minimum, lost its geometry, and at worst, the steel has been overheated in the process, and may never take a shaving edge again.
Dont even waste time here. Go right to 2 layers of tape, and get a bevel set on that edge. Find out if its even worth the effort. If you can set the bevel on 2 layers of tape, you can quick and easy drop down to 1 layer of tape and reset the bevel.
It may look like a nice blade, but there is every chance in the world the person who had it before you has created a situation that a beginner will be overwhelmed by. If you cant get it, dont be afraid to send it off to a pro for an evaluation/honing. It may be worth it not to lose sleep/hair/sanity over!
In addition to the above concerns you might want to ask yourself about thru hardening steel, martisite and pearlite and which is left on the edge.
Are you trying to put a smile on the edge?
If so, the Make Me Smile, post will show you how to do it. But it is an advanced technique.
You need to scale the razor first, and as also said this is not the razor to learn to hone on.
What other stones do you have and what is your level of razor honing experience?
Ya it may be trash and it may not shave. But its an old manhattan cutlery blade. Figured its worth a try and will be stored to keep if nothing else. Thanks for that make me smile link ive looked everywhere for that.
Very good info given.
When it comes time to realy honning it, after getting the edge sorted out and repaired, Then tape and a 1k and see what happens. It may never come back. Its lost a lot and then you are going to take more by making it smile.
I think it is interesting and probably spot on that you traced the curve of the spine and transferred it to the edge. Can you show us the after picture of the razor after you had “cut the smile on it”? I think some may have missed that you said this picture is “BEFORE the cut”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afoshie
I wouldn’t over think it, like the guys said before, some high angle honing on a low grit stone to get some bevels started once you get close toss a piece of tape on the spine and set the bevel on a 1k hone. If it won’t hold an edge it’s toast if it does you’ll have a fine shaver.
Did the OP get lost in a snow storm?
Hope he comes back and gives us an update.
Attachment 303366
Thus is aftrer the cut and start of sharpening both the heel and toe are nowhere near a edge middle has just made one.
Nice job on following the spine shape. Be sure your doing rolling x strokes on the stones.
One more thing that comes to mind is to measure (you can look it up on the web) to see what kind of bevel angle you will be at when done. Too thick of a blade could cause more of a tool edge than a razor edge. I find 17 - 18 degrees to be perfect, but 19 -20 is still usable. Some will go even higher. Without a lot of experiance shaving with many straights you wont know what you like just yet. So its nice to know.
I have a few straights that i have shaved with. This will prob be try once and store. I seem to do better and get closer shaves from full hollow ground. My boker 346 gets me closer and cleaner than any i have. I just get scared ill drop it and break it. Hate to lose a 115 year old beauty.
That looks just like it should to my eye. Good job. It takes a little while to get the bevel set on something fresh off the restore. It will depend on your bevel setting stone and technique. Maybe break it up into two or three sessions. Just don’t fall into the trap of “it’s close enough, I’ll just move on now”. Stay there until the whole bevel is totally set. The rest will be quick and painless with great results. Move on too quick and it’s hours of frustration, IME.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afoshie
Looking good. Sounds like you need to spend more time on the heel and toe, if its getting sharp in the middle of the blade. Just Thinkin. :thinking:
The big part of reshaping is making it look right. The heel and toe have to go with the shape of the edge and the blade.
Use a coin for the heel and toe to round it off and blend with the edge, remember a lot of the edge/width, is missing and it is far from its original shape now. Use a quarter, nickel or washer as a template, from the corner of the tang to just above the edge and a dime at the toe. Then blend the two arcs with a cardboard tracing of the spine so that no more comes off the width in the middle.
Use a black sharpie and keep drawing and re-drawing until you get a shape that looks right. Take a look at old smiling blades to find a shape and gradual, graceful tapers that will work with your blade.
Sharpie comes off with WD40 and is easy to re-do. You cannot re-do, once you remove steel. So be happy with the look before removing any metal.
This is re-shaping not honing, do not worry about making a bevel until you get the shape you want, you can take a little more off when honing so leave it a little long. Once fully shaped, then hone it, take your time.
I can see the heal needing rounded, but the toe? Maybe I'm missing something.
A lot of the blade’s width at the heel has been removed, compare the tang width to the heel (edge to tang width) in the original photo, to the current photo of the blade.
Also note the blade was shaped in a smile, but the smile is not even with the spine, it is thin at the heel and heavy at the toe.
So now, the toe is out of proportion with the blade. Look at the angle at the end of the toe, notice the slant of the end of the toe compared to the original.
Now, in order to make the blade look proportioned, the heel should be rounded and the toe, either rounded or ground back straight to form a spike point. Of course, this is my opinion and what I would do to correct its current configuration, it is not my razor.
Again, here is where planning and looking at all the options, drawing and mocking up corrections come in to play, before any cutting is done.
Correcting the heel and toe were/are part of the overall re-shaping. A lot less metal could have been removed and the heel and toe correction should have been decided on first, then the smile blended to match the heel and toe.
Now you will have to blend the heel and toe correction into the existing smile and possibly removing more metal. Time spend in design, affects the final product.
Here is the Original Photo1
The corrected Photo 2
Proposed Rounded toe correction 3
Or Proposed Spike toe correction 4.
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Attachment 303487
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Attachment 303485
I see now. Picky bastard. :rofl2:
Still for a first try its not bad. Having the toe sticking out a little is ok if it was mine. But the heal needs work still for sure.
Im for the second pic, keep it square.
I too am a spike fan.
Actually, for the OP and the rest of us, it is a good exercise. It can still be easily “fixed” and made a good shaver. Add some classic horn scales and it’s a shaver and keeper.
With design, there are many options, none of which are permeant. Ink it up try all the options you can think of and then decide. Take your time.
A quick Google search of “Sheffield Smiling Razors” yielded hundreds of classic smilers available to use for inspiration.
The original looks “good enough” to me but the proposed changes look “even better”. It’s all personal opinion, of course but Marty, I have to say, you have an eye for detail.
Here is an update. Fixed heal and had it on diamond doing x strokes comin along nicely i think. Attachment 303605
Can someone please mark where i need tape on this for final honing and does it have to be one or two pieces to get it to strop right. I usually use one piece on my others.
Looks good, I like the new profile.
Just one piece of tape from the toe to just past the heel on the spine. Just put the spine in the middle of the tape and rub the tape on to the spine, then fold one edge over tight on to the face of blade, then the other side.
On the worked side it may not stretch tight but all that needs to make contact are the 3 high spots.
Here is an old post on, how to tape a razor safely. Do not tape with wet fingers, your fingers will stick, and you increase the chances of slipping and cutting yourself. How To Tape A Razor Safely.
Just tape over the old hone wear.
Sort of similar, but different as far as the spine goes.
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Attachment 303613
Looking at the pic again, it looks like a wide bevel, is that just the photo?
Ya but the geometry is so off where it was bread knifed it may be. Gona clean on it a little tomorrow maybe. If i have time.
If you bread-knifed the razor, the edge should be 90 degrees to the blade and there should be no bevel.
The problem is now, the edge may not be centered on the razor. How do you plan on “cleaning it up”?
It also appears to have a slight frown near the middle towards the heel. Put it on a straight edge and see if you can see light between two points. If so that will have to be corrected, by removing a bit more from the heel and reshaping, and possibly the toe.
