Figuring out some stones and pasted strops

I started self teaching myself to hone razors prior to joining this forum. Most of my info was cobbled together from some conflicting internet readings and my experience in knife and carving tool sharpening. I had a black Ark and read it was somewhere around 1200-1500 grit, so I discounted its use because the much higher grit 4K/8K Norton seemed to be a well recommended choice. I also had a synthetic ruby stone of unknown grit that I used as a bevel setter. Based on some grit/micron comparison charts (reliability of this information unknown), I added three paddle strops with 7, 3, and 1 mic diamond pastes as a less expensive alternative to the higher grit stones. I went this route because I figured the steel didn't care what was removing the metal. I also didn't want to spend a lot of money to find out it didn't work well. I had a local knife shop hone up a razor I was familiar with for comparison.

Since joining SRP I've upped my skills and get better edges than the local knife shop (that bar may have been a bit low in retrospect). I recently added a shave ready near wedge razor from a member here which confirmed I need to work on my edges. I also learned a black ark may well be a great stone to add into my set. So, I set out to compare striations from my black ark and the ruby stone to get a better idea of where they fit. I decided to add my strops just to see if it would all fit together.

The blade I'm using is a Fredric Reynolds 13/16 near wedge with a smile. I'm about 95% sure this blade will not live again due to pitting along the edge. Some chips are also present. I figured this was a good test subject for practice of several skills moving forward. My goal is not to make this sharp, but to compare striation patterns and see change between the stones/strops. The bevel is not fully set, but set enough to get good contact with the stones and see changes. It has been on the ruby stone through 8K. and through the black ark and strops three times since I came up with a more consistent approach to lighting and photography. Three layers of tape was used on the spine for both honing and stropping to be as consistent as I could. Each stone was freshly flattened and each strop freshly pasted.

My plan is to post images along the way for some feedback. I took images of the ruby stone and 4K/8K but changed my lighting set up while working with the black ark and strops. I'll post those as I work my way back down in grit.

The black ark and strops:
The striae patterns were changed from the black ark to the 7 mic strop, but didn't change on the 3 mic strop. I used around 400 laps on each and added an extra 400 to the 3 mic when I didn't see a change. Still no change. The area I'm looking at is about 1/3 of the way back from the toe on the front side of the blade, so I should be making good contact. I find it hard to believe I missed contact after that many laps. I will occasionally lift the edge on the away stroke, but feel pretty confident of my contact with the pull stroke (front side down for a right hand). So am I wasting my time with the 3 mic paste? Or is it just going to take a crazy amount of stropping? The paste I got is a relatively cheap product from Amazon. Maybe it just doesn't have any actual grit? I'm a bit stumped so any advice is appreciated.

Edges are at the bottom of the images.

Black ark
Attachment 307597

7 micron
Attachment 307595

3 micron
Attachment 307596

Thanks in advance for any help.

You are making this way more complicated, than it needs to be. What is the goal, to learn to hone, or to compare grits from unknown grit sources?

Simplify, and use only known quantities, remove all unknown variables. If you don’t know a stones grit, don’t use it.

First learn to hone using quality synthetic stones, of know performance and grit. Once you have mastered honing and understanding what you are looking at and know that the progression works and will actually hone a razor, that you can shave with, then add natural stones to the mix and compare results to what you know.

Start with a quality hollow ground razor that will take an edge. You can buy a good razor from eBay, any antique store or in the classified for $20 or less. If you try to learn to hone on a, difficult to hone razor, how will you know if a problem is the razor, the stone or your technique. Eliminate as many variables as possible.

All diamond paste is not alike and different paste will perform differently on different substrate. In short eliminate all the “Diamond” strops. Any thing larger than .50um, 20-30,000 grit is too large for razors and if the diamond is not quality, can lead to a micro chipped edge. So, for now eliminate the diamond. BTW, 400 laps are way too many laps. It is impossible for you to have done 400 pasted laps and there to be no change to the stria pattern. Keep better track of your photos.

If you are going to make photographic comparison, photograph the same area each time, mark the bevel so you have a registration mark. Wipe the bevels with a clean paper towel and a dry microfiber. This will eliminate all the horizontal swarf marks on your bevel, so you can better see the stria.

Which quality synthetic stones do you have available? And what is the goal?

You just got that razor from me and liked the shave. My honing instructions were a simple process. Only one low grit for bevel set. 6000 water stone. 20,000 Jasper. Then strop linen with Theirs Issard strop paste. Finish on leather. I believe in the "KISS" method. Keep It Simple St???d. Works for me.

The black Ark "grit" rating as given is not the same as a JIS rating, the latter pretty much being the default on the forums. I'm not one to assign grit ratings to natural stones, but a hard black Ark should be used as a finishing stone, or at least equivalent to the micron ratings of the pastes you mentioned. With a black hard Arkansas, a lot has to do with what has gone before. For example, if you were to use a JIS synth progression on up to ~12k, then a smoothed black hard Arkansas used afterwards might be useful to temper what otherwise might be a overly keen edge. Conversely, if you were to use a smoothed black hard Arkansas after a soft Arkansas, a trip to a strop loaded with the Solingen red paste (nominally rated at between 2-4 microns) might be beneficial afterwards, later touched up with the Solingen black paste (nominally rated at between 0.5-1 micron) afterwards.

To restate: off the high-end synths, my opinion is that a smoothed black hard Ark acts like a steel or a strop to restore the edge, the result being perceived as very, very fine; off a soft Ark used in a dedicated Arkansas progression, the result is more aggressive, requiring the use of the pastes mentioned to further refine the edge.

I can see you're viewing the same spot on the bevel. But using the coated stops that much is just crazy. Diamond strops only need 15 to 25 laps to change how it feels to the skin. Smooths the edge. I found when using them it was just a few stokes on the .5 and same on the .25 and done. That was after a 12K stone.
Keep in mind that strops work the very edge, not the flat of the bevel as much. Playing with odd stones of who knows grit range is hard to understand. You can find some naturals that will scratch the bevel, but feel nice. Others that scratch the bevel and make an edge jagged and course. Also, some that make a bevel look good but damages the edge. Playing/experimenting with odd naturals is for the pros. I wouldn't try it myself. You need to really know rocks, stria, edge uniformity and shave test results very well before doing that.
Good on you to try but stick with the synthetics for a few years first before diving into the pro level of experimenting.
Marty will guide you as he enjoys helping folks to learn to hone, but you have a lot to learn before going where you are going.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

You are making this way more complicated, than it needs to be. What is the goal, to learn to hone, or to compare grits from unknown grit sources?

The low grit stone isn't complicated. It will set a bevel and the Norton 4K will remove it's striations. The plan is to get a Nani or Chosera 1K in the future, but for now it is working and I was curious what the pattern looked like. The black ark I plan on using as a finisher, just a first play with it. The only reason I even included the image was to show the change of pattern after the 7 mic strop.

Simplify, and use only known quantities, remove all unknown variables. If you don’t know a stones grit, don’t use it.

First learn to hone using quality synthetic stones, of know performance and grit. Once you have mastered honing and understanding what you are looking at and know that the progression works and will actually hone a razor, that you can shave with, then add natural stones to the mix and compare results to what you know.

Start with a quality hollow ground razor that will take an edge. You can buy a good razor from eBay, any antique store or in the classified for $20 or less. If you try to learn to hone on a, difficult to hone razor, how will you know if a problem is the razor, the stone or your technique. Eliminate as many variables as possible.

I have several good quality razors from hollow to near wedge, all but two I have honed and shave with regularly. Some of my edges I was quite happy with, some not so much. The two I have not honed are my benchmarks. The blade I recently got from Boushie just helped confirm my feeling that I could do better.

All diamond paste is not alike and different paste will perform differently on different substrate. In short eliminate all the “Diamond” strops. Any thing larger than .50um, 20-30,000 grit is too large for razors and if the diamond is not quality, can lead to a micro chipped edge. So, for now eliminate the diamond. BTW, 400 laps are way too many laps. It is impossible for you to have done 400 pasted laps and there to be no change to the stria pattern. Keep better track of your photos.

I agree, 400 is ridiculous. I only did it to eliminate any possibility I hadn't stayed on the grit long enough. This is not what I would typically do, but I'm not planning on shaving with this and can't really hurt it.

If you are going to make photographic comparison, photograph the same area each time, mark the bevel so you have a registration mark. Wipe the bevels with a clean paper towel and a dry microfiber. This will eliminate all the horizontal swarf marks on your bevel, so you can better see the stria.

The area I photo'd was registered based on nearby chip and pit formations (see images below). The horizontal "marks" are finger oil I missed after wiping with paper and clean swabs. I saw it and decided it didn't affect the point of the images, so I left it. I should have used acetone,but again it doesn't obscure the marks in a relevant manner.

Which quality synthetic stones do you have available? And what is the goal?

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Norton 4K/8K. I assumed pastes of known micron ratings were a known, not a variable. Based on micron/grit charts (yes there is a wide range published) I was confident the 3 and 1 mic pastes would be at or greater that the 8K. I could only think of a couple of reasons for this to occur. Since I clearly spent enough time with that strop (ridiculous number of laps) and I wasn't missing the edge (change between black ark and 7 mic strop) the only other reason I can think of is the paste doesn't have any particles that cut the steel. Looks like I got took by an unscrupulous seller, lesson learned. Probably a 12K in my future.
Goals: Long term to take over the world :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYvAYwpUDv8 (kidding that would be to much work).

Ultimately, I'd like to be confident another user would find my edge acceptable.

Shorter term I want to improve my edges.

Non-razor goal: Increase my knowledge base regarding microscopic tool marks. I have microscopically examined tool marks for over 25 years and took this as an opportunity to look at marks I don't usually encounter.
I thought putting up my observations might have some value to others. If not, consider my question answered.


Black ark
Attachment 307636Attachment 307635

7 micron
Attachment 307634Attachment 307633

3 micron
Attachment 307632Attachment 307631

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gasman

I can see you're viewing the same spot on the bevel. But using the coated stops that much is just crazy. Diamond strops only need 15 to 25 laps to change how it feels to the skin. Smooths the edge. I found when using them it was just a few stokes on the .5 and same on the .25 and done. That was after a 12K stone.
Keep in mind that strops work the very edge, not the flat of the bevel as much. Playing with odd stones of who knows grit range is hard to understand. You can find some naturals that will scratch the bevel, but feel nice. Others that scratch the bevel and make an edge jagged and course. Also, some that make a bevel look good but damages the edge. Playing/experimenting with odd naturals is for the pros. I wouldn't try it myself. You need to really know rocks, stria, edge uniformity and shave test results very well before doing that.
Good on you to try but stick with the synthetics for a few years first before diving into the pro level of experimenting.
Marty will guide you as he enjoys helping folks to learn to hone, but you have a lot to learn before going where you are going.

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The black ark was just a first look. I don't intend to use it on razors until I understand it better. It was the lack of change between the 7 and 3 mic strop that set my head to spinning. I only included the ark pic to show the change after the 7 mic strop. At this point, I'm pretty sure there just isn't any diamond in those pastes. Unless there's another explanation I'm not thinking of, they're going into the circular filing cabinet.

The black ark is a finisher. I often use mine after a naniwa 12k.

I see now that they are of the same spot. Don’t know what is going on with your paste but it is not as rated.

I strop on .50 um Diamond paste and it will almost completely remove all the stria on a bevel visible at 400X, in about 50 laps after 20 laps the edge and about a 1/3 of the bevel is stria free.

I see that all the deep stria was on the bevel even at the Ark photo, the ark added more, fine stria that covered the deep stria. The diamond removed some of the fine stria and made the deep more prominent.

What is the diamond pasted on? I have had the best results on cotton or poly canvas, no need to over paste, 3 inch X’s are plenty.

Get a $20 King 1k or spend more time on the 4k to remove all the deep stria.

While the paste did not remove the deep stria, it is polishing near the edge and the edges look straighter. Experimenting with substrates may produce better results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bouschie

You just got that razor from me and liked the shave. My honing instructions were a simple process. Only one low grit for bevel set. 6000 water stone. 20,000 Jasper. Then strop linen with Theirs Issard strop paste. Finish on leather. I believe in the "KISS" method. Keep It Simple St???d. Works for me.

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I really do like the shave off your edge and won't be touching it until I absolutely have to. I don't have a 6000, Jasper, or TI paste. The Jasper would be a similar unknown as the Ark. At least with my Ark I've got 30 or so years of "feel" with non-razor stuff. Granted it's not razor feel, but it's got to count for something.

That's a 6000 Japanese water stone and 20,000 Jasper.
The point I was trying to make is that you don't need a full set of progression.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

I see now that they are of the same spot. Don’t know what is going on with your paste but it is not as rated.

I strop on .50 um Diamond paste and it will almost completely remove all the stria on a bevel visible at 400X, in about 50 laps after 20 laps the edge and about a 1/3 of the bevel is stria free.

I see that all the deep stria was on the bevel even at the Ark photo, the ark added more, fine stria that covered the deep stria. The diamond removed some of the fine stria and made the deep more prominent.

What is the diamond pasted on? I have had the best results on cotton or poly canvas, no need to over paste, 3 inch X’s are plenty.

Get a $20 King 1k or spend more time on the 4k to remove all the deep stria.

While the paste did not remove the deep stria, it is polishing near the edge and the edges look straighter. Experimenting with substrates may produce better results.

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I should have included the lower power images in the first post - sorry. I was kinda focused on the 7/3 mic images and didn't think to make the correlation to the Ark clearer.

I'm really thinking the pastes don't have grit. I'm considering using them like a polish on some mild steel to see if they'll even make a scratch pattern. I'm about 95% certain they're junk.

The pastes are on hardwood paddle strops with short nap suede. I've been sticking with paddles as I'm more comfortable with them at the moment.

Hadn't looked at the King 1K, was kinda focused on Norton. If it performs similar, it sounds like a bargain. Thanks for the recommendation.

Based on your feedback and some extra reading of old posts, I think I'll focus on perfecting my 4/8K edges and slowly work in the Ark. The shaving off a 4K challenge sounds enlightening. Question: I have been preferring the near wedge grinds, but also have several hollows that are pretty nice. Would it be better to work on a near wedge or hollow? Or both?

"Based on your feedback and some extra reading of old posts, I think I'll focus on perfecting my 4/8K edges and slowly work in the Ark. The shaving off a 4K challenge sounds enlightening. Question: I have been preferring the near wedge grinds, but also have several hollows that are pretty nice. Would it be better to work on a near wedge or hollow? Or both?"


Jelly-This sounds like a good plan. As others have said, simplicity and eliminating variables are your friends in honing. That 4/8k will do the vast majority of any honing you need to do barring ebay rescues, and even makes a pretty good finisher given enough practice. I have gotten many good shaves off of my Norton 8k, tweaked to the max and stropped well.

That said, I now usually finish on a well-burnished 8x3 surgical black Arkansas after a Nani12 as my last synthetic, and usually get stellar edges. And I rarely drag out optics, honing mostly by feel and various tests at each stage.

Having said that, I will often stop at the 8k stage, strop and shave, and often wonder during that test shave, "Why do I go beyond this? It's a fine shave!"

That 8k level is like Do Not Pass Go in Monopoly. Once you max it out, then all the tantalizing naturals will open up and show you just how far you can go with an edge if you take your time. But as has been said on here many times, unless you're getting at least passable shaves from that level, you're wasting your time with anything up the progression. Have fun-Aaron

edit: Oh, and I started honing mostly on the smiling Sheffields I still mostly prefer, and had to learn the gymnastics of getting those honed, though a straight edge hollow German blade is usually much easier to hone (and learn on).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bouschie

That's a 6000 Japanese water stone and 20,000 Jasper.
The point I was trying to make is that you don't need a full set of progression.

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Ah, I get it...kinda missed that :gaah:

I would have thought that was to big of a jump, but clearly it works well.

The more hollow blades are easier to learn on when honing.

Late to the party, but what magnification level are we looking at here? I ask because typically my finishing Arkansas stones do not leave stria like that. They look more akin to your 3 or 1 micron photos.

Fun chart:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...w1OJ5SDjQK4W2X

The grit rating you got for your Arkie is the smallest chunk that would break off of it. But Arkansas stones dont really sharpen by releasing a slurry like a silica packed mud slate would. They do so by being [B]much[B] harder than the material rubbed against them and making it abrade, rather than abrading themselves. So you can tune the surface and get a much finer result from them than their grit rating would imply.

Your pastes seem to be decently uniform. They're not creating new stria. The concern with those is generally that lower quality pastes will have aberrant grits in the mix that don't match the estimated grit rating. There's always a bit of a range, there's no way to guarantee 3 micron paste has nothing but 3 micron grit. Some will be larger, some smaller, but a few random 10 micron grits can really ruin a shaver's experience.

The images were captured with a 4X objective and the view through the ocular is 40X. It should be similar to the camera, but with cropping/resizing/different screen sizes...could be higher or lower. I guess the short answer is around 40X.

I was trying to learn my equipment better and look at where my stones were relative to each other. More or less got it figured and have been playing with my black ark. I've gotten some really nice edges and some not great edges. Still need practice with that stone...pressure, laps, etc.

Novaculites are a unique stone in that the grit size does not matter all that much to the finish they are capable of producing. As said, Ark faces can be finished to produce a finer finish than the grit size would suggest.

With synthetic water stones, the binder breaks away with use and releases new fresh grit, so you will get a consistent stria pattern of the same grit. An Ark face can be polished, so the tops of the grit are flattened and do not release but polish the metal, they are not cutting to the grit size.

Here is an interesting video by Robin Renzitti (Robenz, Precision Ground Toolroom Stones) he machines dual grit Norton course and fine India stone (150 and 400 grit Aluminum Oxide), flat with a diamond wheel, surface grinder and produces near mirror finish on steel with a 400-grit stone.

The finish of your Ark can be manipulated by how the face is finished and what you are using as a lubricant or dry. Burnishing will cause the stone to polish steel, also you can use much more pressure with Arks than you can with synthetics and still get a finer finish. Because they are not aggressively cutting, you need more laps or a finer pre-finished edge.

Where most folks have issue with Arks, is either the stone is not prepped, (lapped and burnished) and will not perform to it’s full potential or the razor is not pre-finished to a high enough level and a burnished Ark is too big of a jump.

A good solution is to finish one side to 600 grit and burnish the other. One side will cut finely and the other polish. Where Arks shine is as finishers, they can polish and straighten an edge, the difference is not seen in a stria pattern, but felt in the shave.

As you compare stria of various abrasives and technique also compare what they do to the edge. Compare a 1k and 8k edge, as the stria pattern get smaller the edge gets much straighter. While the bevels of a Jnat or Ark edge do not look finer, their edges are much straighter. The goal is a straight edge.

A stria free pasted edge is super straight, but may not last, or can be too sharp.

I must plead ignorance here because I am way out of my depth in terms of what you gentlemen are discussing but I do have some observations. It occurs to me that like becoming an aficionado in any pursuit edge refinement can quickly turn into chasing the dragon. To quote King Solomon from Ecclesiastes (not from a religious aspect but from a philosophical standpoint) "...for with much wisdom comes much sorrow. The more knowledge the more greif." And "...the more the words the less the meaning and how does that profit anyone?" Not to imply that this is a meaningless pursuit but to say that the more we expect the more it can sometimes escape us. I do not claim to be an expert or connoiseur (I did at one time. Now I realize how much I don't know) but i am very interested in tea and know as much as I have learned about it... probably. Early in my pursuit of it I found probably the first fine tea I had ever encountered. They had testers which were heavenly to the nose. High elevation grown single estate Himalayan teas from Sikkim, Darjeeling and Antu and Sri Antu in Nepal. If I recall they were between $60-$70 US/lb to which my reply was "that's nice but there is no way I am paying that much for tea." Eventually they went on sale (I must not have been alone in my assessment) so I bought several tins at less than half the original price. By the time I was running out I would have gladly paid triple...quadruple probably the retail price if I could find them again. That was kind of a long explanation to say that my point is now I can't turn back. My tastes have irrevocably changed. Now I would think nothing of spending $500/lb for the right tea. Himalayan teas grown over 6000 feet or Fine Formosa oolong for instance. We do it to ourselves when we set about seeking the minutiae.
Perhaps my ignorance is bliss but I seldom hone past the 4k/8k pyramid progression. Sometimes I find going to the 12k not only does not improve the shave but perhaps hinders it. I'm sure some of you are shaking your heads now and saying "poor ignorant fool." But I am happy with my results. Perhaps more so than some of you. I am not scoffing or belittling your pursuit. Simply saying that from someone who is and has been in a similar situation in another venue my compliments and corresponding condolences go out to you because as previously quoted "...the more wisdom the more grief." I can relate to your joy and your pain. Good fortune to you all and I hope you find more joy than frustration in your pursuit

Edit: also I would trade minor organs for the right Hao ya A Keemun

Euclid440: Cool video, thanks for posting it. I'll watch it in detail this weekend. My ark is prepped as you recommend. Flattened to 600 grit, one side burnished. I'm going from the 8K to the burnished side with the old school Smith's honing oil - it's just thin oil. I've gotten some really nice edges and a couple that were ok, but a little tuggy and not as comfortable. My inconsistencies are with the near wedge grinds. I'm pretty sure it's me. I haven't tried the unburnished side yet. Maybe 8K to unburnished to burnished? I'm using 100 to 150 strokes with fairly heavy pressure at the start and lightening to just the weight of the razor at the end. I know I'll sometimes lift the edge on the lighter strokes. Again I think more practice will get me where I want to go. But tips are always appreciated.

PaulFLUS: I get what you mean. I've had this stone for decades. Used it for my woodworking tools. Got back into straights fairly recently and found out it could be a good stone for razors. I'm fine with the shave off the 8K, but the good edges I've gotten from my ark feel just a bit smoother. I also just enjoy sharpening/honing and want to get the best result I can from the tools I use. I'm not really chasing the "perfect" edge, just the best I can do with this stone.

I know what you mean too JJ. It's just an observation more than anything. Hell, sometimes I just wax philosophical. To me honing is cathartic. It's like hoeing in the garden or any other repetitive task where you can just let your mind wander while you're doing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I must plead ignorance here because I am way out of my depth in terms of what you gentlemen are discussing but I do have some observations. It occurs to me that like becoming an aficionado in any pursuit edge refinement can quickly turn into chasing the dragon. To quote King Solomon from Ecclesiastes (not from a religious aspect but from a philosophical standpoint) "...for with much wisdom comes much sorrow. The more knowledge the more greif." And "...the more the words the less the meaning and how does that profit anyone?" Not to imply that this is a meaningless pursuit but to say that the more we expect the more it can sometimes escape us. I do not claim to be an expert or connoiseur (I did at one time. Now I realize how much I don't know) but i am very interested in tea and know as much as I have learned about it... probably. Early in my pursuit of it I found probably the first fine tea I had ever encountered. They had testers which were heavenly to the nose. High elevation grown single estate Himalayan teas from Sikkim, Darjeeling and Antu and Sri Antu in Nepal. If I recall they were between $60-$70 US/lb to which my reply was "that's nice but there is no way I am paying that much for tea." Eventually they went on sale (I must not have been alone in my assessment) so I bought several tins at less than half the original price. By the time I was running out I would have gladly paid triple...quadruple probably the retail price if I could find them again. That was kind of a long explanation to say that my point is now I can't turn back. My tastes have irrevocably changed. Now I would think nothing of spending $500/lb for the right tea. Himalayan teas grown over 6000 feet or Fine Formosa oolong for instance. We do it to ourselves when we set about seeking the minutiae.
Perhaps my ignorance is bliss but I seldom hone past the 4k/8k pyramid progression. Sometimes I find going to the 12k not only does not improve the shave but perhaps hinders it. I'm sure some of you are shaking your heads now and saying "poor ignorant fool." But I am happy with my results. Perhaps more so than some of you. I am not scoffing or belittling your pursuit. Simply saying that from someone who is and has been in a similar situation in another venue my compliments and corresponding condolences go out to you because as previously quoted "...the more wisdom the more grief." I can relate to your joy and your pain. Good fortune to you all and I hope you find more joy than frustration in your pursuit

Edit: also I would trade minor organs for the right Hao ya A Keemun

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I think chasing the dragon is a very apt way to put it. I think it was Gssixgun that said something along the lines of %98 if honing is complete by the time you finish on an 8K hone. The finishing stone is just the last %1-%2. Directly to my right is a shelf with $1000 worth of Japanese, Chinese, and Welsh natural stones, several Arkansas stones, a coticule, and a handfull of other natural stones. The next shelf up has a small assortment of pastes and a bag of iron oxide powder that's something like .01 micron. To my left I have a stack of barber hones that I paid something between 25 and 40 a piece for. Each does have their own feel, and I quite enjoy them all.

But when you break it down to brass tacks, for the past year and a half or so I've shaved with nothing but a Dovo straight razor honed/maintained on a $20 Swaty barber hone and stropped on plain linen and leather. It wasn't until very recently I broke out the Welsh slates to touch up a hand full of razors, but I've only used one of them once, and diverted back to the swaty and dovo. It's interesting how you can change what dragon you chase, first it was sharpest, then smoothest, and I suppose now I'm chasing the dragon of minimalism. You can throw as much or as little money and time at it as you like, and I suppose that's part of the fun in any hobby - spending time enjoying the toys associated with said hobby.