Looking for a wet stone set

Good morning Gents

First of all I am not hundred percent sure if this is the right sub forum to post so please feel free to move it if it is the case
My evolution in the SR finds a stop because I can not move forward in to get a shave ready edge due to the fact that a newcomer and a small couticule are not the best match for success. That is why I asking here is there is a fellow member who has an used but still in shape set of synthetic stones kicking around and willing to sale, when I said a set I mean a lapping, 1000K, 4000 & 8000 or any kind of full progression that works to see if I can get the need it results.
Already check out and the buy/sale/trade but could not find something in my price range, a quick look in the web shows a Knife Planet combo but I do not know how good they can be.
In the meanwhile I will keep practicing with what I have now
Thanks in advance and any input will be highly appreciate

Hey, Roberto. Post in the wanted to buy section of the BST. Lots of guys have things lying around they don't use.
If just one hone, I can recommend a 4/8 Norton.

Thanks Tom I will

If you already have a coticule, and nothing else, then I would recommend a Suehiro 1000/3000 synth combo for bevel-setting and Welsh purple slate after the coticule. Both are fairly inexpensive and work well. 320x wet/dry sandpaper on a thick sheet of glass can be used for lapping.

As for using the coticule by itself, I would try introducing a little spine-leading action (circles or half-laps) using the stone with just water to see if that helps pick up the edge. The reason for the problem you are facing could be many things, e.g., a factory edge that was taped, making for no contact with the stone, etc.

Yeah, Roberto! Buy ALL the hones. You never know! ;)

+1 to the 4/8 Norton stone. When I got mine I also picked up a 350/1k combo stone. The 350 has never touched a razor, but the 1k is handy for resetting bevels. However, you can do that too with the 4k. Just takes a while. See here for example: https://sharprazorpalace.com/honing/...on-2012-a.html

Be aware of the difference between what you need and what you may (think you) want. For example, I'd love to have a full set of Shapton glass stones and some funky Japanese natural finishers. But mortgage payments have been a higher priority. :) So for about ten years now I've used the Norton combos (especially the 4/8) with a few different natural finishers I've accumulated along the way. And they work just fine for me.

If the OP already has a coticule, which I infer from his remarks, I am wondering why a Norton 8000 would be recommended as they would be more or less serving the same function. That edge has to be there for coticule to do its magic, and the Suehiro 1k/3k is great for setting up things with naturals. If we are to stick with Norton, then perhaps a Norton 1000/4000 would do the trick. (Can't say as I use a Suehiro 1k/3k.) I am not suggesting that the OP run out and buy a bunch of hones, but rather, trying to work with what he has, a coticule, to complement it as to a fuller progression, particularly if the bevel needs more work to arrive at the edge before moving to the coticule.

A synthetic set up is the way to go for beginners. Personally I'd leave the coticule alone until you've mastered the synthetic.
Many people can use the coticule as a one stone from bevel set to finish but the learning process would take a lot longer.

Good luck finding what you want.

In the early days my Norton 4/8 was easy to learn and gave a nice shaving edge. I think a Naniwa combo would be similar in use and should work for most application.

Could be something like a Norton 4/8 can be a do-all hone which is consistent, unlike natural hones which are all different.
Teaching on-line to a beginner is much easier done.

But then...I expect you knew that.

I'm not necessarily doubting the collective wisdom of starting out with a Norton 4000/8000. But as MAW already has a coticule, my sense is that a possible source of frustration he is having may have to do with the underlying edge not being there in the first place.

To MAW: are you familiar with the thumbnail test? It is a method for determining whether or not the edge has been established at an early stage (600 to 4000, 600 to 4k). As the blade's edge is gently being passed across the thumbnail from heel to toe in short sections, the edge should be gripping the thumbnail all along. Give it a shot off your coticule's edge; if it is not there, then one has to use a lower stone to establish the edge. All of this is more obvious at an earlier stage; and when it's there, the finer stones like a coticule then fall in line.

Ok guys I have been reading all your post and all of them are right, each one has a point and I thanks all of you for the support.
Maybe I have too much info together and of course not the expertise to put it in practice.
The facts are I am a new comer, my razor's edge are not a shave ready status although I have been shaving with them, my only honing tool is a small couticule 5"x2", I can achieve a regular pattern in my edge (looking with a 12X magnifier) but can not perform a HHT, I could not find yet somebody who has the experience to teach me or a honing shop to send my razors.
What I am doing is trying to do what you suggest and what I learn from videos on line, try and error upon remote advice sort of speak.
What I thought is with a full size wet stone progression could be easy to learn and get results considering what I already said.
What I guess I will do is get a Norton 4000/8000 or equivalent (to keep things on budget) to honing and maybe use the couticule to try to polish the edge a little and the sand paper on glass method to reset the bevels if i need too, I guess I could cover my bare necessities .
Time may bring more stones and knowledge to get better edges, until then I will doing what I have been doing yet, enjoying this rollercoaster ride called Straight Razor Shaving experience :D

Sounds like a good plan! :gl:

A couple of options, to think on. Most probably your bevels are not fully set. A Norton 4/8k will certainly fill all your needs. You could easily set a bevel with a 4k even removing chips. And the 8k edge is a fine shaving edge especially polished with Chrome Oxide, about $10.

A King 1k for $20 will tame any eBay specials or handle any serious edge correction and works well with the Norton.

An inexpensive solution is the King 1/6k combo stone, $30, it will easily set a bevel and a 6k edge is easily polished to a keen, stria free edge in about 20-30 laps with Chrome Oxide. If you don’t have a pasted strop you can paste a piece of cardboard, (inside of a Cereal Box).

You can easily refine a 6k edge by lightly jointing the edge and lightly resetting the bevel on a clean, freshly lapped stone, this is also a good way to max out an 8K edge. From here it will polish out easily on Chrome Oxide for a keen smooth edge.

You can also get a 400/1k diamond plate from CNTG for $30. With a CNTG diamond plate, King 1/6K and Chrome Ox you are in it for about $70 and will handle all your needs.

A Suehiro 1/3k will also set a bevel and the Coticule will refine the 3k and Chrome Oxide polish a Coticule edge to a keen edge. It can take a while to learn a natural stone and if you do all the heavy lifting on other stones, you can easily polish on a small Coticule. You will be in it for about $60.

Norton’s are quality stones, the 8K is hard to beat and an easy edge to finish, but which 1 and 3-6k stones don’t matter that much because you will not be shaving off any of those edges.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Norton’s are quality stones.

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Aren't there still issues with the 4k side sometimes being full of much larger grit that requires extensive lapping to make it usable? A person who is just starting can be chasing there tail if they don't realize that the 4k is not supposed to feel that way.

I have worn 2 out and tried my new one which is in reserve.
Never had this issue.
It only seems to come-up on occasion with certain newbies who don't have a broken-in diamond plate to initially lap the new hones.

But who am I to suspect loose diamonds or sandpaper? :shrug:

Those issues were years ago, I am sure Norton has remedied any “inconsistencies” and even then, I suspect, as they were issues with new guys, that most were of technique in lapping, rather than the stone.

All the complaints were that scratches developed after the 8k and made the 4k suspect. Having taught a few folks to hone, I have witnessed the same issue, the cause was always, not spending enough time on the 4k to remove the deep 1k stria. Once the 4k stria was polished away with the 8k, the deep 1k stria was made obvious.

Any new synthetic must be lapped well for it to perform. I recall, years ago, I was not impressed with the performance of my 20k Suehiro Gokumyo and some fine stria left by the stone, after a couple aggressive lapping’s it finished just fine.

While the Norton’s are fine stones many of the inexpensive stones have improved in quality, though some a bit smaller. For a person that will hone and maintain a handful of razors per year, and finish on paste, film or a natural they work just fine on razors.

I like the King line they have been around for years and are consistent performers. The 6k finishes higher that rated probably closer to 8k in performance, it is a hard stone. I own most of the stones in the higher end lines and hone on a variety of them, they all perform much the same, especially in the lower grits.

I mostly wanted to bring attention to this potential problem in case the OP ran into it. I have felt gritty particles on newbie's 4k Nortons. I don't know what caused them, but if the OP doesn't realize that that is not how the hone is supposed to feel, that is a problem.

One idea would be to find a cheap Makita stone. King 1200 stone sold under Makita brand. Great for in hand honing as well. I'm not sure if you are lucky enough to have a coticule combo to move that edge on BBW/Rouge layer.

As far as Norton goes, the Naniwa Hayabusa/Fuji combo could be a nicer option. Almost same value. And they are really easy to use. Fuji can give a very very clean polished edge alone and with some work, you might not even need the 4k step. I've done a fair amount of edges with slurry on it. Hayabusa is an amazing stone for a lot of things as well. Just something to consider.

And think about some stropping routine. I have tried plenty of stuff and, if properly done, any will improve the edge to a good/great shaving experience. You are really too far away to make you something and send it. But we could talk about it and maybe you can find some way to do it on location.

Years ago, I tried to find the best stone in each grit, to see if it made much of a difference in the edge.

What matters most is not the stone in the progression, but the ability of the honer. That you can deliver a perfect bevel, at each grit does not matter all that much, because you are not shaving off those edges. It is the edge that counts. Make the edge as straight as possible at each progression, what the bevel looks like does not matter that much. It can be an indicator, but it’s about the edge.

It does make a difference for new honers to use a progression with smaller grit jumps, as it is easier to see progress, (knowing when to stop) and to better understand the process. Just remove each grit’s stria pattern and get the straightest edge possible.

Making a large grit jump, new guys will often use too much pressure and all kinds of bad thing can happen, especially at the edge.

If stone progression is not available or funds are an issue, there is always Wet and Dry and a piece of glass or granite tile. Glue down 1 & 2k paper and go to film for the 8k, (3um) and finish on 1um, (15k). Lapping film does not need to be glued.

A 1um edge is a smoking, shaving edge. If you are not honing a lot of razors, film is an easy and economical way to go. But if a 1/6k King is available it is easier, then finish on film. .3um is about 30k grit. It is an exfoliating edge, kind of like a Feather. 2-3 laps will finish an edge, more than that…

Paste is another finishing alternative but can be temperamental to new stroppers.

True. But since he's buying something (maybe and not considering a change of stone), might just as well get something easier to get results with.

I guess you guys that have been throwing in help suggestions deserves an upate.
A fellow member sharptonn help me finding the wet stone we think could work the best in my case, a Norton 4/8K that with my small coticule should be enough to achieve a nice edge, a more sesoned user may requiere a 12K or even exotic finishing tools but for me in the primary phase of my learning curve will be a waste and as many of you already said the honing abilities overcome the tools.
Last night I decided to practice a little more, so after dulled my Bambola 205 edge on the couticule side I set the bevel using a 1000 grit wetsand paper over a glass method with a layer of electrical tape over the spine.
Then I made some heavy slurry on the BB side of the couticule and did what I guess was about 200 passes after that some whater drops to diluite the slurry and another 100 laps.
A little brake to relight the pipe and sip some tea (not a good idea to smoke a Rusticated pipe while you are dealing with the fine powder honing left in the hands)
The previous procedure was repited on the fine side of the stone plus another 100 laps over clean water with minimum pressure on the blade.
After 50 laps on my battered strop I felt the job was done.
The final test, the shave, I have to say thank to all the inputs, support and knowlege acumulated by this community, I must had improved my skills because I got the smoother shave since I first try my second hand also battered vintage straight razors.
I certainly know smoother should not be wrongly take as shave ready but at least was better than before.
Waiting for the honing tools to arrive but in the meanwhile I will still searching and practicing.

Can you find a length of thin balsa wood, Roberto?

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Can you find a length of thin balsa wood, Roberto?

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Yes Tom I can manage my self, how thick ?

About 3/16 or thinner seems right. I will send you some CroOx powder to paste some balsa. Works darn good after the 8k!

How battered is your strop? You might be better off stropping on clean cardboard or a clean leather belt. Other wise you may be going backwards with your strop.

Are you using magnification?

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

How battered is your strop? You might be better off stropping on clean cardboard or a clean leather belt. Other wise you may be going backwards with your strop.

Are you using magnification?

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Magnification 12X I gonna start looking for a bigger factor

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Might flip it and use it upside down? Unless you are left-handed, of course.
Cut a strip off the right side?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Might flip it and use it upside down? Unless you are left-handed, of course.
Cut a strip off the right side?

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When you said flip it means the other side of the strop?
the other side is rough not smooth

Cutting a small strip of the right (damage side) sounds like a bright idea, although will be thiner should be better than damage :rock:

Do you know what the strop is made from, unusual color for cow leather, is it leather? What is the fraying on the edge, Is it cloth or leather?

I would at least flip the strop so you are not stropping on the frayed edge. Take a clean paper towel, dampen it and wipe the strop see what comes off.

You can lightly clean it with any good liquid degreaser and a clean sponge or paper towel. If leather you will need to rehydrate with a clean sponge soaked with warm water, wipe both sides and apply a few drops of Ballastol or Neetsfoot oil and rub into the leather. Wait a few days and re apply.

If the strop is too contaminated, it might be time to find a new strop, or at least a clean leather belt. If you can get stones you should be able to locate a new strop. Good starter strops are available here for about $50.

A dirty strop can undo a lot of good honing.

When starting out honing, magnification makes learning what is going on at the edge a lot easier. I recommend 60-100X available on-line for as low as $10-15.

I going to look for more information about restoring hide strops to try to recover it also will cut the damage edge as Tom suggest.
One more time your ideas keep me learning and progressing in the art of shaving.