Hi All,
I have been advised that to hone a smiler, I should use a rolling X stroke.
Can anyone explain a rolling X please.
Steve
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Hi All,
I have been advised that to hone a smiler, I should use a rolling X stroke.
Can anyone explain a rolling X please.
Steve
This will get you started. From the Forum's Library https://shavelibrary.com/w/Rolling_X_stroke
Bob
Your best bet is to get together with a experienced honer. It will shorten your learning curve considerably. I have given many people one on one instruction in my home and that is the best way to learn honing. Allow 3-6 hours for your first session.
Try to think of the leading edge going at a 90° to the stone the whole way down the stroke as you make your x. Does that make sense? As you make the x turn the blade into the stroke in a curl so that each part of the smile goes at the same angle to the hone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEtb9k3APYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DStkiyHB9PU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2dqBluDteQ
Try these out. Also you can drop by anytime before the 24th and we can get you up to speed.
It helps me a lot to watch the water getting pushed or undercutting on the hone to tell what part of the edge is in contact as I go through the X. Depending on the amount of smile, the roll can be quite subtle. If you roll too far you will be rounding off the toe, heel, or both.
Those videos are very good and Glen definitely knows his oats. One thing I would say though. Steve, we've talked about the 4k/8k pyramid. When you do that progression DO carefully count the strokes. That progression is all about a progressive hone, polish, hone, polish. You can see the edge get shinier and shinier as you go through it on the rotation. A lot of the time I don't even go to a finisher after the pyramid but do what works for each razor AND for your taste. Remember, that one is just one method and what Glen shows is a different method. I found that the pyramid is very easy to get good results when I was first learning to do more than maintain an already decent edge. That's why I suggested it to you. Glen is a master and you can learn a lot from him. I'm just speaking specifically about the 4k/8k pyramid.
this might help a bit ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6umE...k8H19j&index=1
Read This again ^^^^^^^
It is all about watching that ripple at the front of the blade to make sure it is either pushing or undercutting that ripple as you hone
It is actually all Self-Correcting too if you pay attention, use the least amount of Torque and Pressure to keep that ripple going, as the razor gets sharper that will become less :D
We all are guilty of making up cute names for the strokes in the past, honestly you adjust that stroke to ride that wave on whatever razor you are honing (Honing Gymnastics)
Learning to hone is simply learning those moves..
ps: Do NOT be afraid to use the second hand to help adjust/guide that stroke especially at the lower grits while establishing the bevel
pps: This advice stands for ALL honing systems if you learned to use the Pyramid this still works while using it too, the good news is that if you can get to where you don't NEED anything above that Norton 8k to have a comfortable shave you have learned a good solid base
Watch the water flow from heel to toe.
:)
The great thing about this site is that you've got a lot of guys that are eager to help you learn. The bad thing about this site is that you've got a lot of guys that are eager to help you learn. I'm actually half joking about that but the fact is you'll hear a lot of different things. I'll say up front, and I think I've said this before, I am not at all a honemeister so I would definitely defer to what Mike or Glen or one of the other guys says. All I can share is what I've found stumbling around in the dark with a little bit of instruction from what I've read and been told also.
I hone all razors with a rolling x and have the heal leading to start, I have figured out it’s the best way to ensure a straight has a long healthy life
I would suggest using a practice smiler... This is not a hard way to hone/sharpen a razor but if you are not completely comfortable doing regular x-strokes start to finish on a razor it only takes a small miss step and your edge is toast... I personally didnt put a razor to a stone until i was a year into SR shaving.... I sent mine out and learned the art of keeping them sharp with a strop.. I took the advice of a few members and for me it was the best advice i listened to... When it was time to learn how to use stones i was well versed on shaving and it was sooo easy to transition into the last part of maintaining my razors... I tell anyone who asks for advise to wait on trying to hone.. Just my opinion
I learned it all at the same time before I knew anyone else in the world used a straight razor and personally don't see how it makes any difference except that you have to know at least the most basic skills to know whether your razor is sharp or not. In fact it may help you to learn the difference. Also just my opinion.
By the way, that's why I sent him the practice razors.
So i watch a new guy post a video 6 weeks ago who's shaking like he's had 3 cups of coffee on an empty stomach.. Not a bad job Steve by the way.. To rolling X-Strokes now? Okeedokee..
I started honing/sharpening at a young age, maybe 7 or 8 years old. Mainly knives, hatchet's, machete's, what ever had an edge, or could have an edge put on it. So, Id already had a good understanding of how to go about it.
I started using and honing my razor when I was 17, I just turned 51 last month. So yeah, got some experience with rocks n steel. :nj
You know, reading over my reply it sounds a little sassy. My apologies TC. Don't get me wrong. I'm certainty NOT trying to turn this into a pissing match. Far be it from me to claim expertise in this. As I say I had to learn by myself from trial and error so that has to have jaded my outlook. No offense intended.
He definitely has taken on a lot quickly. The guy is hungry. So he wants.to learn , I say good for him. The Isley Brothers fired Jimi Hendrix because he wouldn't calm down. I hate to stifle that enthusiasm. Steve should go in advised that rushing causes mistakes.
TC is right. If you are going to venture into it don't do it with your fancy razor and no experience but he has practice razors like TC suggested. Mistakes are a learning experience. That's all I'm saying.
I'm self taught at a lot of things and it is good and bad. It has certainly bitten me enough times. In my conversations with Steve he seems like an adventurous spirit. You have to know that there are snakes in the woods though. If he's okay with that then why not?
My response might have sounded a little snappy in return.. Apologize for that.. I also lied a little bit in saying i didnt touch a stone in the 1st year of learning.. I bought the norton 4000/8000 & naniwa ss 12000.. And like the majority i too wanted to jump 8n head first and did for a little bit. But i soon found out that i didnt even know how to strop a razor to keep it usable but.was doing even more damage whem i took it to a stone... So at that time i put them away and stropped my ass off :)... Evem when they didnt need it i was stropping all the time.. Drove my wife crazy but i tell you what i learned how to keep an edge on a razor for a long time... So just from my own experience im a big advocate of of using a strop for edges... Its certainly not for me to tell anyone the way that they learned how to use and maintain.straight razors is the wrong or right way... As a matter of fact after putting out my last post it reminded me i had been putting off a Heljestrand that i needed to put on the finisher so just got that stubborn bugger done!.. Take care all.
.
Like with most things there are several ways to the same end. There really is no one size fits all solution but just suggestions on how to go about things. That really goes for when to learn and how to hone. Nobody has suggested any really bad ways but there definitely are a few bad ones out there. In the end the individual simply has to pick a way and try it. You learn from experience which is the best way for yourself. I think everyone hones a little different in the end anyway.
Bob
Hi Guys,
I hear people refer to bread-knifing.
I assume they're not talking about sharpening a bread knife.
Steve
I think that ^^^^ about covers it.
Gulp.. unfortunetly somewhat been there on accident..
Read that article carefully, you DO NOT need to always start at 90° "Breadknifing" it depends on the damage you are fixing
In the article that razor had a double-dipped chip which is HIGHLY susceptible to cracking if you were to start at a lower angle on the hones, that is why I took it down at 90° first then dropped the angle as I corrected
True 90° breadknifing is a DRASTIC restore option, use with caution
I just got a bad bad feeling on this
You started off asking how to do a smiling razor
Now you are asking about Breadknifing
DO NOT !!!!! Breadknife a smiling razor to make it easier to hone, you will DESTROY the geometry
Already plenty of those abortions for sale on eBay no need to make more
If I am reading that wrong, I apologize
Hi Glen,
Don't worry, I have no intention of bread knifing anything ever.
I just heard the term and wondered what it meant (education).
I am an avid watcher of your youtube vids. I must have seen them all half a dozen times.
After lunch I am going to hone my smiler on 4k/8k Nortons with the swoop and see if I can get it sharp.
I have shaved with it after honing it and it feels pretty smooth, shaves well enough but won't pop hair on my arm so I guess it's not right yet.
This will be my third try on the stones, lucky it's only a practice razor eh?
Steve
OK, I saw what bread knifing was!!
Are you people mad? :dropjaw:
Steve
My breadknifing happened while making a stroke on a stone and halfway through I basically made a divot with the edge which in turn brought the spine up to a 90 degree angle.. Not sure if doing this is called breadknifing? But it sure f#@ked my edge up! :)..
The shave test is the only for sure test, Steve. If it works for you, I'd all that matters. Unless your reaching for something better. When I started shaving n honing, all I had was one stone, fine enough for straights. But not fine enough, its only around 1 or 2000 grt., , but that's what I shaved off of for many years, till I learned about other hones specifically for straights.
You mean it's not this?
Attachment 313895
To Whom It May Concern,
Steve just did the pyramid on his practice smiler.
Every stroke was a swoop and the razor can pop his arm hair and cut into a tomato with just the weight of the razor.
He is just about to have a shower and a shave with the aforementioned smiler.
I am very proud of him and although most of you could do better, I think he should be pleased with himself.
:rofl2::bow:roflmao:y
Steve
PS. if he wants a bread knife he can get one from the kitchen.
O-M-G I just shaved with my practice smiler.
I had a fantastic smooth shave, razor was sharp as - well sharp :D
I had my first real bbs shave today.
I wish I could say it was my blade but I know it's my technique that's improving.
I have even figured out how to do my neck smooth.
I can feel a new Youtube video coming on, I hope I'll impress but I am always grateful for advice.
Can't type any more because I need both hands to feel my face.
Steve
We call that faceturbating, Steve. So now you know why the dog licks himself. Feels good eh.! :tu