Sharpening In my tests I have seen it much easier for me to control the flatness and pressure using two hands. Is there any contra to use 2 hands?
Thanks for you help
Greetings for all
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Sharpening In my tests I have seen it much easier for me to control the flatness and pressure using two hands. Is there any contra to use 2 hands?
Thanks for you help
Greetings for all
I'd like to hear the answer on this one as well. I tend to use two hands to keep the spine stable, to keep the razor flat on the hone all the time, not really for pressure.
As an absolute honing newb, I find that using two hands really helps. I try not to add any pressure and just guide the blade with a couple of fingers of my left hand. I try that if I start with them right in the middle of the blade, it helps me do a passable x-pattern. I, too, would like to hear the experts on this.
Ok, I'm no master and I have heard much advice to the contrary, but I use two hands sometimes on some hones.
The norton is one. I always use two hands - no pressure but just enough support to stop the blade dragging its toe.
With smaller hones I find that the x pattern I use avoids the need for two hands so I don't do it.
I also use 2 hands on the lower grit stones like 1k to ensure even pressure on all sections of the blade, especially on larger wedges.
I allways hone with one hand , x stroke , approx 45 deg heel leading on all of my razors
( In shooting clays as a newbie, you can hit the targets with different ways, but for a constantly high score you must train your muscles with the correct fluid motion from the beginning, because if you train in a wrong way it is more-more difficult to change the wrong motion )
So my oppinion is, that you must learn the one hand, x stroke honing, from the beginning
I think whatever works for you. There are excellent honers who use two hands - I use two hands, but I'm NOT an excellent honer ;)
Jordan
But why? What problems would you get from using both hands?
I think that if you used two hands then it would be very difficult to consistently get the very light and even stroke that is necessary to put a perfect finish on the edge towards the end of the progression. At the end of the progression one should be using no more pressure than the weight of the razor (often even less pressure than the weight of the razor) for the best results, and if the honer must use two hands to keep the razor steady on the hone then there is most likely going to be some extra and uneven pressure. After all, I don't know how you would "stabilize the razor on the hone" without adding pressure from your other hand/finger. If you are honing with one hand then you can actually use a little bit of negative pressure on the blade toward the end of the progression by lifting up a little on the tang to remove some of the extra pressure caused by the weight of the blade. Personally I feel like I have much more control of the blade and the pressure when I use one hand than two. I am sure that you can get great results with two hands; however, I am not aware of any honemeister who uses two hands and I support the school of thought that says it is better to practice the "correct" way from the beginning even if it is more difficult. There are also many people from the other school of thought that say to "do what works best for you" though so it is really completely your call. Once you develop the muscle memory then one handed honing is not very hard though. As a side benefit, one handed honing also allows you to go faster which is good if you are honing many razors. Of course this is all just my opinion based on my experience and observations.
I've used two hands when honing right from the beginning. It might be harder, but it's not impossible, to achieve light strokes with two hands.
James.
I certainly don't speak for him, but Bill Ellis uses two hands in his CD, and his edges are as good if not better than any I've shaved with.
I actually find it easier to use negative pressure with two hands. I realize I may be in the minority. I just feel that if I can control pressure with one hand, I can control it with the other as well.
Also, I don't use the second hand to push down on the razor as much as to push it along the hone.
Again, I think its what works for you.
Jordan
A narrow and long hone is the best for all types of razors in my oppinion
I have always felt that you get a much more even and consistent stroke and a more even level of minimal pressure from using one hand. I have never been a fan of altering pressure either, although some do.
Have fun,
Lynn
I think it depends on the person honing . I think some people hone better with 2 hands , and some people are better using 1 hand . I use 2 hands . I tried honing with 1 hand , and got mediocre results . Switched to 2 hands , and my results improved big time , YMMV:)
You can use the side of the 1 sided 4K (not 4K/8K) Norton as a 1 inch wide by 8 inch long hone. I am also using the side of my 6X2 belgian natural as my narrow (about 3/4 inches wide) belgian blue even though there is a mixture of both the blue and yellow garnets in the slurry (the blue seems to predominate the mix though). I also have both a vintage blue and a vintage green escher that are about 1 X 5 and 7/8 X 5 respectively that I use for finishing. Needless to say, I really like to use narrow stones on razors that do not have a perfectly flat and straight blade profile.
This may or may not be true. I don't want to be ornery about this, but unless you've spent a lot of time doing it both ways (one handed and two handed) you can't possibly know this to be true. Even if you have been doing it both ways for a long time, how do you know that two-handed is not the best way? Perhaps you are just not very good at using both hands :shrug:
I get shaving edges every time and on all my blades using two-handed honing, even with warped blades and smilers etc. Pressure really is not an issue if you know what you're doing.
However, as with everything, YMMV.
James.
I use two hands and pop a big toe in there sometimes for extra stability ;)
Could this kind of be like a two-handed backhand in tennis or some unorthodox stance in baseball --- that is, it might not be the most efficient and technically correct way but results are results.
Justin
It is not need to rediscover wheel.
People hone razors a very very long time ago, and because when begin honing, the easiest way is to hone with two hands, this method is not dicovered today but is probably the first method that people tryed and has been put aside by centuries of experience
That's why there is no need to be tryed again.
For a new discovered method I am willing to give it a try
By the way if someone hone razors with success by using two hands is the exeption and not the rule
+1 Never one to forcefully put forth my own experiences and opinions :rolleyes: , I tend to be a two handed honer and the reason for this is that I am able to very lightly guide the blade along the stone more smoothly and more consistently than when I use one hand. I require a really keen edge to scrape off my wirey beard and this is how I am able to achieve it. YMMV but I think to presume history's course and the results of others seems just that - presumptuous. I am interested to hear of how everyone hones up their blades, however. Even in Greece :w
Happy Honing and Keen Edges to All -
I'm worried that with two hands I double the likelihood of uneven pressure per stroke, even if it's a light touch. Whatever works, works though, may be all in the individual's coordination.
I always use two hands, one to keep the razor flat. If you put little pressure on the spine alone not much of it will be "transmitted" to the bevel. I am too clumsy I'm afraid to use one hand. I do not alternate pressure nor do I use a rocking motion on my smiling blades.
Watched a couple of video's on honing from the internet. They were using two hands so I gave it a go (1st time) & thought it went well but then I read these posts & hope I didn't screw up my blades. :confused:
I'm going to get Lynn video, but is there any other good ones on line that show one handed honing?
After watching Lynn's video you'll need no more videos.
Weighing in with my 2 pennies on this one!!!!
I have found that whether I use one hand or two depends on the razor it's self. Starting out I try the one hand approach, if the blade is even and you can feel the blade sucking to the stone (hollow ground) then I continue with just the one hand honing. However if the is blade has any unevenness to it, then I stay on the 4000 Norton, with very, very, light pressure using two hands, until the blade edge or bevel evens out. Some times this is when I actually use the nagura stone to create a slurry, using the two handed style, and the slurry, to create the new edge and bevel. Then I switch back to one hand and continue up through the rest of the pyramid that I am using.....
Of course, this is only what has been working for me, it took a very badly honed Faultless razor, that I had to completely dull the edge to get rid of the heel frown, for me to prove to myself that this system works.... That razor was a butter knife when I started again on it, after I shaved with it the second time, I finally felt confident in this system
of course YMMV
That's very true Yannis - sorry for being a grumpy bugger yesterday. :o
This is just a guess, but I think you'll find that anyone who uses two hands to hone probably does not do it in the way that one handed honers think they do. Often the second hand is merely a finger on the spine at the tip, and any pressure that may be applied is most directly applied to the spine rather than the edge. I personally can achieve very light pressure on the edge with two hands by applying a very small amount of "push" against the spine with my thumb which, if done carefully, can allow negative pressure on the edge if you wish. One-handers achieve the same effect, I think, by adjusting weight at the tang :shrug:
In any event, history does show, I guess, that one-handed honing is certainly more prevalent. Understandable, particularly with barbers doing in situ touch ups using barber hones and the like - hone in one hand, razor in the other, couple of swipes and you're off. Much quicker, and more professional-looking, than sitting the hone on the counter and going at it two-handed :)
James.
Why is one hand preferred or better? What are the essentials of a good honing that lead one to say such a thing. Just a question.
Justin
Good question though. I can't answer why one-hand is preferred, although I have theories.
Personally I believe that good honing is any honing that puts a shaving edge on a razor, whether just for yourself or for others . I guess better honers can get that done more quickly and consistently across a wide variety of conditions. :shrug:
James.
Are people saying that one hand is superior because old barber manuals show it that way?. Maybe barbers used one hand only because they needed to use the other hand to hold the hone --- not the best method maybe but the quickest for a barber on the go. Just because certain things become a certain way as history speeds along does not necessarily mean they are superior or even correct. For everything I can think of, two hands is better than one (not everything I'm sure) --why not use that other hand?
Justin
Because it is difficult for me to explain with words my opinion as my english are not so good, I tried in this picture to explain my opinion in this subject. The curves are not made by real mesurements but they are the closest thing in my mind that can describe you what I think.
I dont know if the curves can be touched in the upper level of quality but it seems clearely that starting is dificult but in the way you have better results faster.
So that is why I sugest to newbyes to begin one hand honing.
This is just my opinion and I am not trying to forcefully make someone adopting it.
How bout those Indians........:roflmao
:shrug:
Lynn