Thread: Daily Honing?

Just out of curiosity, what sort of razor do you own?

James.

It sounds like your stropping is lacking. Try at least 50 passes with a little bit of speed to build draw on the plain leather.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Just out of curiosity, what sort of razor do you own?

James.

Basic Dovo...the $60 one you get with starter kits....'Classic' I think?

Originally Posted by heavydutysg135

It sounds like your stropping is lacking. Try at least 50 passes with a little bit of speed to build draw on the plain leather.

I've tried to defend my stropping in the past, and I really believe that my stropping is good, or at least not detrimental to the blade. I do 60 round trips (120 strokes total) before each shave and have noticed an improvement in smoothness after honing. I use very light pressure, taught leather, quick strokes, turning on the spine, and every other piece of advice I have heard here. The problem I am having is the feeling of dullness, which is improved after light honing on the coticule and stropping (which at this point makes the blade feel and seemingly cut better than right off the coticule with no stropping).

Right now it is the chipping (which I hope is not being caused by plain leather), and rapid deterioration of the sharpness of the blade that is my major problem. Again, the shave is smoother and easier after stropping the initial honing attempt, but dullness is noticeable on subsequent shaves without honing. So to reiterate:

Dull blade;
I hone;
Shave one cheek to test;
Strop;
Shave other cheek;
Feels/cuts better (not worse);
Half way through shave I can feel blade duller than first few passes;
Next shave;
Feels dull
Strop;
Feels dull;
Hone;
Test cheek, sharp;
Strop;
Feels better;
Begins to feel dull by end of shave;
Next shave....

Stropping does not appear to have a negative impact on the blade in my estimation. I stropped the blade when it was Lynn honed and it remained sharp for at least a few weeks before I felt any pulling, so I guess I want to know how to tell if the blade is over honed and what to do about it. I have heard stropping on the hone is the way to cure this...is it the best/only way to do it?

Originally Posted by Ray Zorr

I've tried to defend my stropping in the past, and I really believe that my stropping is good, or at least not detrimental to the blade. I do 60 round trips (120 strokes total) before each shave and have noticed an improvement in smoothness after honing. I use very light pressure, taught leather, quick strokes, turning on the spine, and every other piece of advice I have heard here.

"Not detrimental to the blade" is a pretty low standard You don't mention linen at all - are you stropping only on the leather side? Try doing 30-40 strokes on the linen side and 20 or so on the leather side and see if the edge doesn't start coming around.

Originally Posted by Ray Zorr

Basic Dovo...the $60 one you get with starter kits....'Classic' I think?





I've tried to defend my stropping in the past, and I really believe that my stropping is good, or at least not detrimental to the blade. I do 60 round trips (120 strokes total) before each shave and have noticed an improvement in smoothness after honing. I use very light pressure, taught leather, quick strokes, turning on the spine, and every other piece of advice I have heard here. The problem I am having is the feeling of dullness, which is improved after light honing on the coticule and stropping (which at this point makes the blade feel and seemingly cut better than right off the coticule with no stropping).

Right now it is the chipping (which I hope is not being caused by plain leather), and rapid deterioration of the sharpness of the blade that is my major problem. Again, the shave is smoother and easier after stropping the initial honing attempt, but dullness is noticeable on subsequent shaves without honing. So to reiterate:

Dull blade;
I hone;
Shave one cheek to test;
Strop;
Shave other cheek;
Feels/cuts better (not worse);
Half way through shave I can feel blade duller than first few passes;
Next shave;
Feels dull
Strop;
Feels dull;
Hone;
Test cheek, sharp;
Strop;
Feels better;
Begins to feel dull by end of shave;
Next shave....

Stropping does not appear to have a negative impact on the blade in my estimation. I stropped the blade when it was Lynn honed and it remained sharp for at least a few weeks before I felt any pulling, so I guess I want to know how to tell if the blade is over honed and what to do about it. I have heard stropping on the hone is the way to cure this...is it the best/only way to do it?

I have to ask, Are you sure it’s not your shaving technique? I.e.: (blade angle). If the blade angle (while shaving) is too high, your beard will “crown” the edge and your blade will become dull within a few strokes… only honing will bring the edge back.
Too high a blade angle it may also cause the “chipping”.

Originally Posted by mparker762

"Not detrimental to the blade" is a pretty low standard You don't mention linen at all - are you stropping only on the leather side? Try doing 30-40 strokes on the linen side and 20 or so on the leather side and see if the edge doesn't start coming around.

Yeah I probably should have said edge instead of blade...but like I tried to painstakingly say in the above 'shave journal' that I do notice some improvement in the feel and cutting ability of the blade after stropping. Might be in my head I don't know. And I have no linen side to the strop, only finished and unfinished leather.

Originally Posted by smythe

I have to ask, Are you sure it’s not your shaving technique? I.e.: (blade angle). If the blade angle (while shaving) is too high, your beard will “crown” the edge and your blade will become dull within a few strokes… only honing will bring the edge back.
Too high a blade angle it may also cause the “chipping”.

This is the kind of stuff I was looking for. I will try to pay more attention to the angle. Any more things to look out for when shaving/honing?

And before anyone else says anything I know you will probably say it is the stropping/the way I strop/the type of strop/pre-stropping technique/angle of the strop/temperature of strop/speed while stropping/stropping music/stropability of strop/etc. I am looking into the stropping, I have become one with the strop and have dedicated my life to getting to know my strop. Let's just say for the sake of argument that my edge does feel and cut better after I strop and that the edge gets worse as I shave, after being stropped and feeling better/cutting better off the strop. Now if it is something like 'you can over strop' then that is good stuff, but stuff like 'look at your stropping' 'have you checked your stropping' 'have you considered stropping', 'you can dull the edge on the strop', 'sometimes after you strop the blade is duller than off the hone, in which case you didn't strop correctly', 'strop...strop...strop...STROP!!!!'. I get the strop argument, and I thank everyone for pointing out it...I really do. But my question is if are there ways in which the honing can make an edge too delicate to survive a shave (yes even after the mightiest of stropping attempts) or, like Smythe pointed out are there any shaving technique problems that might prematurely dull a blade, as long as it has nothing to do with shaving the strop.

Any input is much appreciated...as long as the strop is not the focal point of the argument. Thank you all.

Originally Posted by Ray Zorr

Yeah I probably should have said edge instead of blade...but like I tried to painstakingly say in the above 'shave journal' that I do notice some improvement in the feel and cutting ability of the blade after stropping. Might be in my head I don't know. And I have no linen side to the strop, only finished and unfinished leather.



This is the kind of stuff I was looking for. I will try to pay more attention to the angle. Any more things to look out for when shaving/honing?

And before anyone else says anything I know you will probably say it is the stropping/the way I strop/the type of strop/pre-stropping technique/angle of the strop/temperature of strop/speed while stropping/stropping music/stropability of strop/etc. I am looking into the stropping, I have become one with the strop and have dedicated my life to getting to know my strop. Let's just say for the sake of argument that my edge does feel and cut better after I strop and that the edge gets worse as I shave, after being stropped and feeling better/cutting better off the strop. Now if it is something like 'you can over strop' then that is good stuff, but stuff like 'look at your stropping' 'have you checked your stropping' 'have you considered stropping', 'you can dull the edge on the strop', 'sometimes after you strop the blade is duller than off the hone, in which case you didn't strop correctly', 'strop...strop...strop...STROP!!!!'. I get the strop argument, and I thank everyone for pointing out it...I really do. But my question is if are there ways in which the honing can make an edge too delicate to survive a shave (yes even after the mightiest of stropping attempts) or, like Smythe pointed out are there any shaving technique problems that might prematurely dull a blade, as long as it has nothing to do with shaving the strop.

Any input is much appreciated...as long as the strop is not the focal point of the argument. Thank you all.

Oh... one more thing. and its just a suggestion. I am not saying your razor is to blame but do you have another razor? if not then get another razor (even as backup). So you can compare another blade's "shaveability".
Get an e-bay razor (not the zeepk or any of the crappy ones) and hone it up, strop and shave with it and see if the edge holds up longer than the current one. If the e-bay razor holds up longer... then your current one may be a lemon...

Now i know Dovo is a good brand but it can happen even with new production razors... maybe the steel is too brittle and wont hold an edge for long.

In any case its good to have a backup in case you ding your blade one morning and "need to get to that meeting to close that deal and must have that BBS face".

oh... one more thing what kind of hone or hones do you have?

Originally Posted by Ray Zorr

Yeah I probably should have said edge instead of blade...but like I tried to painstakingly say in the above 'shave journal' that I do notice some improvement in the feel and cutting ability of the blade after stropping. Might be in my head I don't know. And I have no linen side to the strop, only finished and unfinished leather.



This is the kind of stuff I was looking for. I will try to pay more attention to the angle. Any more things to look out for when shaving/honing?

And before anyone else says anything I know you will probably say it is the stropping/the way I strop/the type of strop/pre-stropping technique/angle of the strop/temperature of strop/speed while stropping/stropping music/stropability of strop/etc. I am looking into the stropping, I have become one with the strop and have dedicated my life to getting to know my strop. Let's just say for the sake of argument that my edge does feel and cut better after I strop and that the edge gets worse as I shave, after being stropped and feeling better/cutting better off the strop. Now if it is something like 'you can over strop' then that is good stuff, but stuff like 'look at your stropping' 'have you checked your stropping' 'have you considered stropping', 'you can dull the edge on the strop', 'sometimes after you strop the blade is duller than off the hone, in which case you didn't strop correctly', 'strop...strop...strop...STROP!!!!'. I get the strop argument, and I thank everyone for pointing out it...I really do. But my question is if are there ways in which the honing can make an edge too delicate to survive a shave (yes even after the mightiest of stropping attempts) or, like Smythe pointed out are there any shaving technique problems that might prematurely dull a blade, as long as it has nothing to do with shaving the strop.

Any input is much appreciated...as long as the strop is not the focal point of the argument. Thank you all.

An overhoned edge can fall apart during a shave, and that would be my guess as to what's going on, particularly as you are honing it fairly frequently from what I can tell.

Oh, and you might want to make sure your stropping is up to scratch

James.

Originally Posted by smythe

Oh... one more thing. and its just a suggestion. I am not saying your razor is to blame but do you have another razor? if not then get another razor (even as backup). So you can compare another blade's "shaveability".
Get an e-bay razor (not the zeepk or any of the crappy ones) and hone it up, strop and shave with it and see if the edge holds up longer than the current one. If the e-bay razor holds up longer... then your current one may be a lemon...

Now i know Dovo is a good brand but it can happen even with new production razors... maybe the steel is too brittle and wont hold an edge for long.

In any case its good to have a backup in case you ding your blade one morning and "need to get to that meeting to close that deal and must have that BBS face".

I have a shavette that is always sharp as a backup. I have only gotten excellent shaves with it except for the occasional nick from catching the corner of the blade.

Originally Posted by smythe

oh... one more thing what kind of hone or hones do you have?

Japanese 1200, DMT 8k, yellow coticule. Passes HHT of the DMT and coticule easily...at least at first. Edit: As well as after stropping...

Originally Posted by Jimbo

An overhoned edge can fall apart during a shave, and that would be my guess as to what's going on, particularly as you are honing it fairly frequently from what I can tell.

Oh, and you might want to make sure your stropping is up to scratch

James.

So does back honing fix an over honed edge? What is the best way to get back to square one?