Thread: "Hone ready" revisited

The Ohio get-together was my first opportunity to do some in-person, hands-on honing instruction, and the experience reinforced something for me that was discussed in a previous thread. The title was something like "Aspiring honemeisters wanted: Hone-ready razor experiment." It was lost in The Crash of '08. (Cue "Taps" here.)

The premise of the thread was that one of the major difficulties that newbies struggle with is "establishing a bevel," a term that I'm starting to think is a little confusing. Basically, what that means is that both sides of the honing bevel are straight and meet to form a clean edge. All residual dullness, rust, and improper honing from the razor's previous life has been removed. The entire edge has been brought to an even level of sharpness.

Once that basic edge had been achieved, the premise went, newbies would be able to create a shaving edge with much less difficulty.

On Saturday I had the chance to work with a member who had very little honing experience. I believe he had actually just purchased a Norton from Tim Z that very afternoon. He can reveal himself if he chooses.

So we had a few razors to work with, including a couple of eBay specials. The eBay razors were in decent shape, but the edges showed the usual pitting and slight rounding that you get from years of neglect.

I took one for a spin on my DMT hones, removing the rust, pitting and edge damage. I stopped after the 1200-grit hone, and let the other member take over.

I explained the pyramid approach to the Norton, and we started by doing a conservative pyramid at the 5-5 level.

His technique at this point was tentative, but he had the basic idea and seemed to gain confidence quickly. He kept the pressure on the hone fairly light and tried to keep the razor flat on the hone. A few times, the toe popped up off the hone--no big deal.

We stopped and tested the razor periodically. After just one conservative pyramid (5-5, 3-5, 1-5, 1-5), that razor was slicing my arm hairs cleanly. I didn't do a HHT, but I'm almost certain it would have passed. That razor probably didn't have a perfect edge, but it was darn close.

Let me repeat that: In his first try, a new honer had a razor ready for a shave-test in about 10 minutes. He had done a total of about 30 strokes on the Norton.

This re-enforced several ideas for me:
- It doesn't take many strokes to take an edge from sharp to shave-ready, especially on a fast hone like the Norton.
- The mechanics of honing are pretty simple. I didn't tell this member anything that wasn't covered in Lynn's video. There was some benefit to me being able to watch what he was doing, but mostly I think the value of in-person work was that I could help him evaluate the edge as it developed.
- It really pays to learn with a previously honed razor. The old barber manuals that I've read recommend learning to touch up a sharp razor before tackling an old, dull one.
- When you read about guys (me included) doing hundreds of strokes, keep in mind that they're probably doing some heavy lifting to restore a damaged edge.
- If you find yourself going through the pyramid over and over without making any progress, it's likely that your edge isn't properly established. Consider having someone more experienced look at it for you.

I came away from the experience with the sense that, in years past, honing wasn't seen as a great mystery or black art. Most apprentice barbers probably got the hang of it in a few hours, and from there their edges just improved with practice.

Just a few thoughts.

Josh

My experience over the years with knives (and razors now) is identical, i.e. Once a new user (me in the razor case) gets a good bevel, the rest can come fast and fairly quick. Getting that first bevel is key.

I must say, this is most encouraging as a newbie

It really was too bad that my old thread got lost as there was a lot of evidence that supported our premise. After I set the bevel on their razors, everyone was able to polish the bevel to a shaving sharp edge. As Sticky said, the fundamentals are the same as sharpening a knife: Get it as sharp as possible on the low grits, then polish the sharp edge further on the high grits.

One of the most important fundamentals of honing a knife is establishing a burr. The burr tells you that you have actually hit the cutting edge and that side of the bevel is sharp. The thumbnail, thumbpad, and HHT can be used to accomplish the same thing with razors; however, most beginners have not yet learned to use these tests effectively. Based on my experiences with taking over from where beginners could not get their razors sharp, in almost every case the problem was that the razors were not sharp on the low grits and the bevel was not properly established. One time just for the heck of it I honed a razor like a knife by actually honing on one side of my DMT-E with some torque until I raised a burr. Then I repeated the process on the other side. The razor sharpened up to a shaving sharp edge quickly and easily after that because the bevel had clearly been established (I do not advocate using this method, it was just an experiment). Of course the other option is to just do progressions and test shave until your razor shaves well enough for your taste.

It still seems to me that the manufacturers could at least sell razors that have the bevel set correctly. It like buying tires that you have to cut your own treads in!

Originally Posted by Doc

It still seems to me that the manufacturers could at least sell razors that have the bevel set correctly. It like buying tires that you have to cut your own treads in!

Good point!!

Originally Posted by Doc

It still seems to me that the manufacturers could at least sell razors that have the bevel set correctly. It like buying tires that you have to cut your own treads in!

If they did this then there would be light hone wear and scratches on the side of the spine. Most people want a new razor to look brand new. In order to accomplish this at a low cost the razor manufacturers will hone the razors with the spine slightly lifted.

Originally Posted by heavydutysg135

...
One of the most important fundamentals of honing a knife is establishing a burr. The burr tells you that you have actually hit the cutting edge and that side of the bevel is sharp. The thumbnail, thumbpad, and HHT can be used to accomplish the same thing with razors; however, most beginners have not yet learned to use these tests effectively. Based on my experiences with taking over from where beginners could not get their razors sharp, in almost every case the problem was that the razors were not sharp on the low grits and the bevel was not properly established. One time just for the heck of it I honed a razor like a knife by actually honing on one side of my DMT-E with some torque until I raised a burr. Then I repeated the process on the other side. The razor sharpened up to a shaving sharp edge quickly and easily after that because the bevel had clearly been established (I do not advocate using this method, it was just an experiment). Of course the other option is to just do progressions and test shave until your razor shaves well enough for your taste.

I find it extremely interesting that Dovo actually raises a burr, on purpose, on all their new razors when they begin the sharpening process. This is reported to be done right before the razor goes to a Belgian Old Rock.*

Raising a burr before the Belgian is/was a Dovo standard practice. Maybe a good method for the rest of us? I'm not recommending it, just wondering...(and trying to start hate-and-dissent maybe)


*reference: Razor Sharpening And Using Tips.pdf

Thanks for the link Sticky, I was not aware that DOVO advocated raising a burr in the sharpening process. Although I am not sure if it is the best/most efficient way to hone, honing until a small burr is raised would at least tell someone that they have hit the edge on that particular side. My experience tells me that it works well without any bad effects on the shaving edge as long as you carefully remove the burr before moving on in the stone progression via light alternating strokes. I will continue to use my alternating strokes and sharpness tests though.